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Okay, this is a different topic from some of the previous topics of today. We all know that the bible is sometimes metaphorical. What do you think about the story of Adam & Eve: Adam is created. Becomes "lonely" and so Eve is made from his rib. (There is another story that was actually removed from the bible by early Christians. This book speaks of Lillith, who was supposedly Adam's first wife and his equal who was not made from his rib. Supposedly, Lillith sprouted wigs and flew away, condemning man to 100 murders a day until she agrees to return. These are from the gnostic teachings but that's a different story). At any rate, going with the "traditional" teachings, Eve was seduced by a snake and partook of an apple from the Tree of Knowledge (knowledge of life and death) and convinced Adam into partaking of sin of biting into the apple with her, thereby, seducing Adam. As a result, Adam and Eve realised they were naked and hid from God. As punishment they were cast out of EDEN, Eve would suffer pain in reproduction (pain in childbirth) which means, in order to produce and endure the pain of childbirth, Adam & Eve would have s*x. Is it possible that there were metaphors at play here? For example? The tree of knowledge: Could it be, of carnal knowledge? Adam & Eve were naked. Eve were seduced by the "snake" (some bibles use serpent but more commonly, snake). The snake is a phallic symbol. Could it be that the story of Adam & Eve being cast out of Eden is a story of loss of innocence? That Adam and Eve disobeyed God, gave in to carnal sin and had s*x, and that the story of the "fruit" is just a metaphor? Eve's virginity representing the "fruit", Adam's ***** representing the snake? The tree of knowledge representing their innocence? Which is why Eve would become pregnant, edure the pain of childbirth after this act of carnality? This isn't a serious topic, just a play on metaphors.
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Wednesday, August 13th 2008 at 6:10PM
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not sure how much theological support there is to back up this plausible idea, but interesting play on metaphor
Wednesday, August 13th 2008 at 6:13PM
charity White
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E.
YOu make great points and many Christians do not know that the first woman was made at the same time as Adam and was therefore his equal. Aso folks don't know the reason for Adam and Lilth's falling out was due to s*x! Yes adam wasnt a virgin when he finally knew Eve. Liilith wanted to be in the female dominant position whereas Adam wanted her to be in the missionary or male dominant posistion. ANd yes these stories are not in the Christian bible...
The Bible is full of metaphors why does Jesus say for those that have ears let them hear! For those that have eyes let them see! Jesus was delivering two messages one for the uninformed and on for the self realized or informed listener. Theology aside the bible is one of the best boks ever written and it's metaphors and parables are there to teach all of us a lesson...
Wednesday, August 13th 2008 at 6:24PM
GREGORY GULLEY
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Lillith…oh no you didn’t…you are tying to start a fight now:) You are really on a search for knowledgetoday!
Lillith is the reason for the term luliby.. and each one of ya’ll have sang one to your kids.Some argue that Lillith was removed to religate women to a secondary role in religion.
Since we are on this quest for info here is some more:
There is another version of the Mosaic Genesis story. In this story God creates everything…including the Devil. But the Devil tries to show God that God have made man with a flaw. Satan agrues that man will turn his/her back to GOD….and not follow his commands.
GOD is about to destroy Satan for questioning his plan (free will) but GOD shows him mercy by allowing Satan live until the judgement day. At that point GOD tells Satan that all that follow him will follow him to the hell fireand all that do not will get eternal paradise.
Strange… the story of hell/ heaven and the devil/ temptation made it into the text…the reason for heaven and hell or temptation did not.
So I ask you…if you believe that most of the world is going to hell…are you questioning GOD’s great plan? Who do you side with?
Wednesday, August 13th 2008 at 6:33PM
Dr. Ahmad Glover
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Congratulations, looks like you're about to enter the world of Agnosticism or at least on your way to becoming a Free Thinker. (I'm an extreme Agnostic myself: I don't know and you don't know, either!)
The Hole-y Bible begins w/a fairy tale -- THIS one -- and ends w/a dream -- John's Revelation -- and we're supposed to believe everything in between? If Black folks -- b/c we're the ONLY people on the planet who still believe in the "infallible" fantasies, eehhhhrrrrr, word of god -- would bother to research real history they'll realize (American English spelling) that there is nothing new in their bible stories. (Google "virgin births" and many other bible-realted stories.) All I can say is those who believe in this "Adam & Eve" creation shouldn't bother ever taking their kids to a science museum or watching the History Channel, or reading archeological studies. Just keep on reading the same book. Day after day. Week after week. Month after month. Year after year. Decade after decade. Until you die.
"When I was a child, I thought as a child and believed what was to believe, but when I became a man I started to research and explore and therefor put away such childish beliefs", me - circa 2008.
Armour is fully on, you may unleash the hounds!
Wednesday, August 13th 2008 at 6:36PM
Craig Amos
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Craig..
u done started it now real good fo oh-self... they gone beet oh-head till da white meet sho!
Great post... Doc the MUSIC is turned up now
Wednesday, August 13th 2008 at 6:43PM
GREGORY GULLEY
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Craig...I can't stop laughing...you are going to get it now..LMBAO...here they come!
Wednesday, August 13th 2008 at 6:45PM
Dr. Ahmad Glover
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Gregory, take a look at this link. It makes more sense to me (not referring to the metaphors, E Private, but to Greg's assertion that there was another woman before Eve).
Of course, we believe what we want. ...just giving feedback, Greg.
http://www.gotquestions.org/Lillith.html
Depending on where you look, the myth changes. In witchcraft, Lilith is described as Adam's supposed twin SISTER, not mate! LOL. Here's an exerpt:
"It is said that Lillith was the twin sister of Adam and dwelt with him in the Garden at Paradise. Adam was king of Eden and Lillith wished to be co-ruler with him, but the Lord of Light permitted it not. Lillith was beautiful and wise. She wearied of her brother, Adam, who was less wise than she. Lillith refused to bear children from Adam. The Lord of Light was angered and turned Lillith out of Paradise. Samuel, an angel of the Lord of Light and a son of god, fell in love with Lillith. To Samuel, Lillith bore three half-god, half-human children, all called the nephilim. Their wisdom, power and beauty was so great that the children of Darkness were afraid of them and called them monstrous names to defile them. Lillith would not be defiled. From her beloved Samuel she learned the wisdom of the Lord of Light and became the first witch. She lived as a daughter of the night mother, calling the people to dance and be joyous by the light of the moon. Her symbol was the night owl, and those who followed her called her Arionrhod. The children of Darkness trembled and barred their doors at night seeking to protect themselves lest Lillith take them and teach them the ways of the wise ones, the witches of old."
See? Ridiculous. First, she's Adam's first wife. Then, she's his SISTER...and TWIN sister at that. Then, she's a demon who dates back to the time AFTER Moses. Here's an exerpt:
"Lilith (Hebrew ìéìéú) is a mythological female Mesopotamian storm demon associated with wind and was thought to be a bearer of disease, illness, and death. The figure of Lilith first appeared in a class of wind and storm demons or spirits as Lilitu, in Sumer, circa 4000 BC. Many scholars place the origin of the phonetic name "Lilith" at somewhere around 700 BC despite post-dating even the time of Moses.[1] Lilith appears as a night demon in Jewish lore and as a screech owl in the King James version of the Bible." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilith
And perhaps the greatest and most detailed reference I found to the lilith myth is this one: http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mlilit...
It's a VERY interesting and detailed read.
ROTF.
Blessings...
Wednesday, August 13th 2008 at 6:46PM
Dee Gray
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Craig...I'm still laughing....you are a mess!
Wednesday, August 13th 2008 at 6:48PM
Dr. Ahmad Glover
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Craig, there is no armor without God. ...nice try though. ;-)
Blessings...
Wednesday, August 13th 2008 at 6:52PM
Dee Gray
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Dee,
bookmarked that link.... but since we are on Genesis... God made man in Chapter 1 and A&E in Chapter 2... So could this mean that there were humans on the Earth before A & E?
Wednesday, August 13th 2008 at 6:54PM
GREGORY GULLEY
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Gregory, huh? Read Genesis 1:27-30. That's still Chapter 1, right? Chapter 1 introduces Adam and Eve. Chapter 2 provides a detailed account of their beginnings.
Blessings...
Wednesday, August 13th 2008 at 7:00PM
Dee Gray
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We all come here for the same reasons and thats to interact with people not afraid to say what on their minds. And Irma would it be on the Level to call you my Sistar?
E. Truth be told i had to get my man face on to post a comment on one of your blogs... but luckily u picked stuff i can speak about... and Craid daz still gon git u terrible baad once they fin out u reading dem books...
Wednesday, August 13th 2008 at 7:02PM
GREGORY GULLEY
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Yep, Greg...that's what is says...believe as you deem appropriate. Oh by the way...the word Adam may have simply meant Human Begins...not a specific dude...they kinda forgot that part during the translation. I guess Adam sounded cool.
Wednesday, August 13th 2008 at 7:03PM
Dr. Ahmad Glover
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A lot of study and research went into translations by teams of linguists and such. Babelfish is hardly a reliable source to translate much. Try ANY language and it doesn't quite get it right. That's because it can't account for every word in every language.
Blessings...
Wednesday, August 13th 2008 at 7:20PM
Dee Gray
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BTW, the OT was written in Hebrew and the NT was written in Greek. (Note: In the OT, parts of the book of Ezra as well Daniel, along with one verse in the book of Jeremiah and a single word in the book of Genesis, were written in Aramaic).
Blessings...
Wednesday, August 13th 2008 at 7:27PM
Dee Gray
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Did I miss something? Who attacked Craig?
SMH ?
Blessings...
Wednesday, August 13th 2008 at 7:58PM
Dee Gray
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Amen, Ms. Felicia!!!! Amen. This is SO PROFOUND:
"This is why it is important to be grounded in the truth so that when faced with a choice between the truth and a lie, your response will never be, “I don’t know…” And by the way, I do take my daughter to science museums and we do watch the History Channel, including archaeological shows, however, I will never hold man’s acquired knowledge of a thing above the knowledge of the God who made that thing. Oh, and yes, we are to read that same Book over and over again, for He commands us to hide the word in our hearts that we may not sin against Him. For we know that, in order for the armor to work, you must believe in the helmet of salvation, the breastplate of righteousness, the TRUTH, the shoes fashioned from the peace you receive from trusting in His word, the weapon that this word becomes in the hand of the believer and the shield that faith in Him forges for you."
I'm like...WOW.
Blessings...
Wednesday, August 13th 2008 at 8:32PM
Dee Gray
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Irma, I don't understand what you're getting at. What do you mean, "but how does all of this fit into the Garden of Eve. God created Adam and Eve... or 2+2 does not equal 100 to me no matter how I look at it." ????????????????
Eve was created from Adam's rib...it doesn't get any more married than THAT. And frankly, my dear, dear sister, it doesn't have to make sense to you to be true. It's true because it IS. The inerrant Word of God is just that...withOUT error.
And all these fun and games may be 'cool' at the moment, but God is not mocked...not even a little bit.
Blessings...
P.S. - Ms. irma, what does that last paragraph mean? I tried to make sense of it and couldn't. Will you please help ya sistah out? Thanks. ;-)
Wednesday, August 13th 2008 at 9:33PM
Dee Gray
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Irma, I'm still not getting it. Are you suggesting that a man and a man CAN procreate? A woman may be able to have a baby without a man these days, but she can't do it with sperm from another WOMAN'S substance, can she? Do you know something I don't know? Whether she has s*x with the man to get pregnant or not, she still needs the man to make that happen.
I said this earlier and I'll say it again: we've got to stop confusing acceptance and love. I don't HAVE to accept every notion you have any more than you have to accept every notion I have in order to LOVE you.
Otherwise, couples would never have a disagreement, friends would never fall out, and we'd all be bored to death of each other. We have different views because we ARE different. I may not accept or approve of everything you SAY or DO, but again, I don't have to accept or approve of 100% of you in order to LOVE you.
Take my husband, for instance. I love him to life!!! But sometimes he works my last black borrowed nerve and I don't like him very much. He gets on my nerve and we don't think the same about everything. SO WHAT? That means I don't LOVE him? Please, that nonsensical in its entirety.
As for these "changes" in the Bible...I'm TOTALLY confused. What do you mean?
Blessings...
Thursday, August 14th 2008 at 1:55AM
Dee Gray
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Irma, it seems that every time you get frustrated, you come SO SO close to hurling an insult of some kind. Why is that? Here's what I mean:
"There is one difference in my confusion and yours Dee, I am not making my points by going in circles."
Who's going in circles? That's frustration on your part masked by insult and it's not cool...not at all. I do not appreciate it and if this is how you'd rather conduct communications, I love you, but I'd rather not communicate with you...at least not on a spiritual level because we don't believe the same things so we're bound to not get what the other is saying. I can accept that.
I think Felicia put it best:
"Now, what does all of this have to do with the central question of this blog? Well, the Bible is clear in its teaching and says that those that come to God must believe that He is and that He a “rewarder” of them that diligently seek Him. That means that you will never get the “reward” of peace in all of your questions until you settle the question of God being God. You must work out your own soul salvation with fear (respect) and trembling (reverence). In other words, how can you believe what He says if deep down you don’t believe who He is…?
I guess that what I am trying to say is that you have to decide whether or not you want to move beyond an “arms length” relationship and a “buffet style” mentality which allows you to pick and choose the when, what and how much of God and/or the Bible you believe. That will only come when you have had an experience with Him that you can’t explain, but you can’t deny. I am praying that yours will come soon and that you will come to love Him as much as He loves you."
Big Hugs, Irma. ...still luv ya, but need to step back but for a moment.
Blessings, my sistah...
Thursday, August 14th 2008 at 11:16AM
Dee Gray
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..No, I am no longer Catholic even though I was born and raised in that faith I left it. Because after gaining control of my God given right to think for my own self and demand control of my thinking and my envornment with out fear of going to hell; I became more than being told what to believe .Now if I had been a slave or given the choice of die ..or to live go to prison for life, be burned at the stake then I would have tried to find the answers I seek even on this blog from an under ground rail road...not from my sosters and brothers on this blog of EP's...
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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...good night and good by to this blog....Love all of you and keeping communicating. This is all abour us.....
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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Oh, and I love my husband also only I do not see him as an extention of myself.
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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I agree with you my sister you are confused.Join the same club as I, because I am confused also. Where in the Bible did you hear about sperm? I doubt if this was even a concept of how one gets pregnant just as it is today by many of us. I refere that Mother Mary had had not contact with her husband to get with child. So, how did Jesus come into being?Tell me where in you Bible does it talk about sperm????It does talk about VIRGIN, so please tell me more???Or are you telling me that God is a man????And, if you are saying this then God is mortal and once again adding to my confusion!It is very easy when there are questions and not just answers, correct?
My preist would always say to me, if you had faith you would not ask questions. If this is true, I thought at the time then what does 'seek and ye shall find' mean???confusion, confusion. But unlike back then, I no longer fear going to hell for trying to get UNCONFUSED.
I forget the Philosopher who said this to prove logic.......All mortal must die, man is mortal therefore man will die...(or something like this)Statement and proof to back up the statement or premis which the statement is based on....more confusion...again, join the club....
There is one difference in my confusion and yours Dee, I am not making my points by going in circles.
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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Dee,are we not talking about the Adam and Eve, Garden of Eden,ect? I will be the first to admit that there are many versions of the WORDs of God. But, Am, I correct that in your Bible the only people said that God created is Adam and Eve? Did Adam and Eve have two sons? If so then we are talking about the same things. I just get lost as to how even you say that two males can not have children, correct? That marriage is between a man and a woman. Now if Father is a male and daughter is a female is correct in your Bible then from here on out is where I tend to get lost....with things like adultry, s*x beween man and man because incest is not allowed by God's or man's laws. Now about today when a female can have children with out a male physical presence is a given to me...Now are we still on the same page?
I know we are because we are trying to understand each other without trying to do each others thinking as an I am in control of your right to do so, and if not "it is a sin" attitude. I see this as not only unity but accepting each other as equals.
And, Bless you my sister friend for this. And, God bless America the land of our birth also
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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Oh, I guess I make false claims about being married? I came from my mother's female body. More changes in the Bible? Or just fitting the WORDs of the Bible to fit? No wonder I am so screw up trying to get logic to help with my reasoningas related to the Bible!. Or is Catholic now anti-christ ?No offensive just, my common sense acting up again.
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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I do love that part in the Bible about Eve knowing what she wanted and going for it, don't you? That was a powerful "independant" woman who knew she was, didn't she........? A fully liberated WOMAN!!!!!!!!Eve, you go Girl(smile)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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As for you Craig that lightening bolt of your words have hit me and I am ready to go to hell for believing what you said. Reeducation is going to be the savior of ALL peoples or better the 'race' of mankind....The lighting of wisdom has struck....I am one of those who have your back so bring them ON... Much Lov and respect to you my brother.
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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Not sorry again, but how does all of this fit into the Garden of Eve. God created Adam and Eve... or 2+2 does not equal 100 to me no matter how I look at it. Nor does s*x with out marriage.And, I know nothing about this marrage, do you????? marriage between a male and a female yet deny incest as a sin beforeGod and law in America while doing it.but, then I live in Ca. where same s*x marriage is legal. No, I had nothing to do with it beyond wondering how long is it going to take to get the father, daughter liscense denied before the Supreme court to get this mess making sense to those like my self.
I repeat, I respect all religions and individual choices of religious beliefs. I will continue to believe the Bible without changing the WORD to fit each blog...stiutaion, etc....So, Felicia, please try to understand me from my point of view.."iF it does not make common sense to me, I can not use it in my life".
Now what were we saying about GOD created Adam and EVe...they had two sons...
Oh, now if you want to move up to 2008 and we can talk about having a baby without having s*x with a man, if you like......fact???!!!?? or not???!!!!!????...I do know that the POPE condemns it; I wonder why....(smile?)...May be the "VIRGIN" birth...I repeat I so not change the Bible at will/situation!!!!!!!!!
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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sorry, "attack" is not mind control fail safe now is it or slave mentality...
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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Gregory, I am honored to be called your sister in this proud Black community,site, family.
Thank you.
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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And, as for me, I am still back here waiting for all of us on this site to come into existance. EP's blog before this christians used the Bible to prove that two men can not have children...some thing is wrong here because, we are in fact here on this site therefore we do exist....Or may be the Bible did not start with the 1st chapter or the 2nd chapter, HUH?????Maybe another MUTE of religion/Bible as we know it today? T-H-I-N-K, before attacking Craig's freedoms of speech, thought.....?
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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Thanks for this blog EP. May before it is all over I will get some light shed on my pet $67,000 question(just a 60s' slang for unknownable-smile). Here is goes again. 'If Adam and Eve had two sons, where did the rest of mankind come from'?
"Nope"(!!!!), the Land of Nod story from my parish preist did not work years and years ago as it makes mute the garden of Eve....Adam and Eve themselves....
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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And, Gregory where have you been all of my life(smile)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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