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This is a question that came to mind when reading Harry's blog on what good has Islam or Christianity done for African Americans. It is not just of a historical nature, but more so the psychology behind the formation of the NOI. It is most definitely not for the purpose of creating religious strife, or adding to any divisiveness. It is for the purpose of a rational and civil (and hopefully scholarly) discussion, and I hope it will not degenerate. I don't claim to know much if anything about this, but I know there is at least one person here who was close to the family of the founders, and others who are old enough to be close in time to the actual events that transpired. It seems to me it was part of the civil rights movement. I am really interested in the psychology that led to the belief that Christianity was insufficient for the welfare of African Americans that led to the adoption of Islam as a better way for African Americans. I may not even be posing the question properly, so excuse my ignorance if that is the case. And please, while debate is good, I hope it will generate a dialog and understanding, and not cause another BIA war.
Posted By: Steve Williams
Monday, August 23rd 2010 at 10:09AM
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In my opinion,
steve williams and steven muhammad are both American citizens.
steve williams and steven muhammad are both students of American History and may or may not have been affected by American History the same way.
steve williams and steven muhammad, both are byProducts of slaverAmericana.
steve williams and steven muhammad might both view slaverAmericana -- 1492-1864 as GOOD Christian Life....
steve williams and steven muhammad might both view slaverAmericana -- 1492-1864 as BAD Christian Life
steve williams and steven muhammad are both searching for Intelligence, Scholarship and an Understanding of AlQur'aan and the Sunnah of Mohomed(as)
africans came to America as Muslim Explorers and Slaves.
the descendants of Europeans and Africans in America have chosen the Faith and Way of AlIslaam to Direct their lives to a closer Monotheistic path than the European Christian path of 1492-1864.
Our Father elijahMuhammad, after being almost lynched and had all his property stolen in georgia Realized that 1492-1864 Christianity was not helping and providing the Nourishment of The Creator for himself and other Americans that looked like him.
along with some of the Family of Marcus Garvey and various other similar minded Americans of the African Diaspora and a few nonAmerican Muslim Believers---he began a Journey to AlQur'aan and the Sunnah of Mohamed(as) through a vehicle that he and others called; The Lost Found Nation of Islam in America.
Oh, I guess we can all search on Google for the rest, but your Blog Subject is Genesis---?
and this as best as an old man;
with personal knowledge of the passengers, personal long hours of discussion with passengers in the vehicle, actual vehicle passengerism, and most importantly Family of the Passengers--can express in a short writing.
now that vehicle became New, Modern and Complete in 1975---at the Death of Our Father Elijah Muhammad and The Lost Found Nation of Islam in America died.
The Family of Elijah Muhammad as American Muslims have since 1975 Joined the Broader 2 Billion Muslims in the World with their Submission to AlQur'aan and the Sunnah of Mohamed(as).
today there are nonFamily groups that claim the junked vehicle of noi, for their own Fraudulent salvagable financial gain---i would call them the neoNOI, not NOI.
Tuesday, August 24th 2010 at 8:31AM
robert powell
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Thank you Robert, that was exactly what I was looking for. For the record, I also think Christianity is flawed. Not the words of Jesus mind, but what the religion became. Many many Christians do not comprehend nor follow the words of Jesus, in fact do the very things he said NOT to do. But we are still a country brimming with Christians. And there they are marching against the Masjid. Onward Christian soldiers as the song goes.
Tuesday, August 24th 2010 at 9:16AM
Steve Williams
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Hello Robert,
I find that the fundamentals of your thinking is that all people should be Muslims and that is wrong since Allah clearly states in AlQuran that prophets are risen up from their own kinds. Therefore, anyone with common sense would know that their prophet must be risen up from their own kinds.
For instance, Prophet Mohammed was an Arab and he was risen up from among the Arabian people. Common sense would tell you that Prophet Mohammed was specifically meant for the Arabian people only.
You, Robert need to understand AlQuran in AlIslam.
Now, since Mr. Elijah Muhammad was not anointed as Prophet Mohammed, Prophet Moses and I am Elijah did not know any better otherwise God would have given him Black America’s own religion that would not have had the word Islam. I said before that Black America’s religion is LIFE. Just as Allah perfected the religion of Islam for the Arabian people through Prophet Mohammed God has perfected the religion of LIFE for Black Americans through me, Prophet Harry. Use your common sense. Allah gave you common sense and you should use it!
Am I right or am I wrong?
Tuesday, August 24th 2010 at 9:28AM
Harry Watley
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Irma, I didn't know those facts about the Baptists, interesting. And you are correct of course in your point about the original Africans.
I joined a black Baptist church because I thought they might be more socially active. It has not turned out to be the case. They are more of a business, just like the white Baptist churches I have known.
For spiritual guidance I look to the bible, because that is what I know, and I have learned to see the metaphor, and also where the records show not righteousness but unrighteousness, which is also a means of learning.
As Robert rightly says, I a am learning about AlQur'aan now. His many efforts in translating the passages have enlightened me. He will have his reward. Some I understand and some I don't. I really need to read in it's entirety, as I have done the bible.
Tuesday, August 24th 2010 at 9:30AM
Steve Williams
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Harry, I have not memorized the bible, but I have almost memorized you. I could probably do a very good impersonation at this point, were I so inclined.
Tuesday, August 24th 2010 at 9:36AM
Steve Williams
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Harry, the inhabitants of BIA have begged to hear more. We have got the fundamentals, now would like to hear the rest.
Tuesday, August 24th 2010 at 9:39AM
Steve Williams
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Oh, and Irma, I am out of shock now. I got it all out of my system on my blog the receiving end of bigotry. Did you read it?
I am glad you have returned, my sister.
Tuesday, August 24th 2010 at 9:42AM
Steve Williams
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And Robert, you have my respect and gratitude for what you said there in my support. I only did not say so there because people do not understand our alliances, the alliance of truth. It all gets taken so personally that they cannot see what it is really about. I hope you do not see it as cowardly, or a lack of gratitude. I try to get along with everyone. Jamal is really the only one where this seems to be an impossibility.
Tuesday, August 24th 2010 at 9:50AM
Steve Williams
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where are all the siebraStevenAbrahamSolomon farakhanMadoff Frauders?
Wednesday, August 25th 2010 at 11:05AM
robert powell
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I thought too I might get some reply from Jamal at least. Perhaps he doesn't know?
Wednesday, August 25th 2010 at 11:14AM
Steve Williams
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Peace To All,
As someone who has been Muslim all my life, I say the Nation of Islam is not the aggressor in words or deeds to anyone. We have been as consistent as Christianity and Buddhism in our desire to see freedom, justice and equality to all regardless of race, creed or color. This is Elijah Muhammad's Program as given to us in What The Muslim's Want (published on the back pages of the Muhammad Speaks newspaper).
Wednesday, August 25th 2010 at 12:08PM
Siebra Muhammad
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Robert would not know how to spell Islam if not for Elijah Muhammad....now, he thinks he is an authority......how do you say bull**** in Arabic ?
Wednesday, August 25th 2010 at 12:42PM
jamal Abraham
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Siebra, I will see if I can find What the Muslims Want, online. Thanks.
Wednesday, August 25th 2010 at 1:12PM
Steve Williams
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Jamal, thanks for weighing in, I guess. The Arabic may be هراء أو كلام فارغ
Robert could say for sure, but I may have gotten the form wrong, and please don't ask me how to pronounce it.
Wednesday, August 25th 2010 at 1:19PM
Steve Williams
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Siebra, he only thing I don't quite understand is the last point. Does he mean race mixing prohibited but the U.S. government or by the separate Muslim state?
In any event, thanks for the info!
Wednesday, August 25th 2010 at 1:33PM
Steve Williams
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Our Father Elijah Muhammad 1929-1945 and 1945-1974;
was of two different Thought periods---
1929-1945 all Family members acknowledge was paganChristian-1929 Negro inspired thought.
The 1929-1945 NOI did not say christian--
cause they believed it BAD CHRISTIAN life,
but they did pick up the transliterated term --- muslim---an arabic word meaning of One who submits to The Creator of Adaam
The 1929-1945 NOI did not say bible--
cause they believed it BAD CHRISTIAN life,
they did pick up the transliterated term----quran---an arabic word meaning The Creator Communicated to Man---as in scripture and words to Prophet Mohamed(as)
But in the 40s Our Father Elijah made Shahaddah
---Submission to AlQur'aan and the Sunnah of Mohamed(as) to make Hajj to Meccah----may Allaah have mercy on us all.
Even today a postcard can be purchased in the shops here with him at Hajj and HajarAlAswad
but at home in America, the NOI had some thuggish nonIslaamic Elements, as evidenced by the death of Al Hajj AbdulMaleek AsShabazz----
and 1945-1974 was a stuggle for Our Family of Believers against the rouge, thuggish elements.
at Our Fathers death in 1974---our Brother WarithDeen(wallace) Muhammad ---
whom mom and Believers in AlQur'aan and the Sunnah of Mohamed(as) all knew was the best chose to lead America into a larger Islaamic Community of 1.5-2 Billion Muslims in the World---to follow the Only practice of Muslims; AlQur'aan and the Sunnah of Mohamed(as)
even a guy named louis farrakhan followed and became AbdulHaleem Farrakhan..
soon in 1978 after his reversion back to louis farrakhan and paganChristian- noi, 1929-1945 thought---
farrakhan and others realized; since The Family had dropped NOI name; paganChristian courts could be moved and thugged to give a divisive claim of a "new-old" NOI---and the theft, Diversion and fraud began.
siebra, jamal or any other part of the Divisive---"black-white muslim thought"---is the same as any paganChristian Bad Religion 1492-1864
they are not acknowledged by anyone in AlIslaam;
If one does not make Shahaddah and believe AlQur'aan and the Sunnah of Mohamed(as) as Our Father Elijah Muhammad did;------he/she has no part of AlIslaam......
just as anyone that does not accept the Original Thought of The Creator of Adaam through Nuh, Ibraheem, Musa, IsaIbnMaryam and Mohamed(asm) and the Original Words of Allaah in AtTaurat, AlInjeel, AzZaboor has no part of Monotheistic Thought--AlIslaam.............
Thursday, August 26th 2010 at 10:36AM
robert powell
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Steve, I think you have jumped the gun there...Africans did not start out Christians so the bettere question woruld why christianity was chosen as best for my people...we were just fine with our water god who provided us warter for life...Steve I believe you say you are Babtist...well that Baptist started out as a Blacaak church or did you know that?...every religion has a history and this is your history if you are baptist...(HEY BROTHER ARE YOU OUT OF SHOCK YET?????lOl?
(SMILE)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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wHEN i THINK OF THE noi, i ALWAYS THINK OF mARCUS gARVEY. ..
'I"JUESS i DO THIS BECAUSE OF THE BIG BUSINESS THE FIRST BLACK OWNED IN AMERICA.(SMIL)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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