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Mississippi governor and Presidential hopeful Haley Barbour develops a revisionist history of the Civil Rights movement. Here he goes into great detail about race relations, the Republican Party's "monumental" contributions to Civil Rights and his own personal history and the history of the South. The problem is--it is all fake. It is verifiably and demonstratably false. Rachel fact checks him and Pulitzer Prize winning columnist Eugene Robinson, who grew up in the South, remembers it differently.
Posted By: Richard Kigel
Friday, September 3rd 2010 at 9:15AM
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Rachel points out that his target audience is not black voters. He knows the Republicans won't get them. He is aiming for independents white voters who may be persuaded to vote Republican if they can feel sure they aren't so damn bigoted.
If this phony narrative gains traction, it could translate into a decisive vote gain.
That is the only reason he is doing this.
Bottom line: it needs to be called out for what it is--another lie.
Friday, September 3rd 2010 at 9:19AM
Richard Kigel
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Thanks Clark.
Exactly right. I loved Eugene Robinson's "rant"--which he gave with a smile--but he gave some specific reasons why BArbour's claims are bogus--EXHIBIT A--in 1964 the five states from the Old Confederacy voted for a Republican candidate for the first time since the Civil War. The left the Democratic Party--why? The Civil Rights Act of 1964.
What I apprecaited about this report was how Rachel was the only journalist to pick up on it, as far as I know--and she connected the dots to a broader GOP strategy to seem acceptable to African-Americans--not for their vote, but for the independent white vote. Cynical.
That is why we need most of all some fact checking and truth telling.
Friday, September 3rd 2010 at 12:41PM
Richard Kigel
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Thanks Rich. But someone needs to check the facts what the Democrats are really doing for African Americans. It seems to be a given.
Friday, September 3rd 2010 at 3:11PM
Steve Williams
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Clark, the Democrats are just as good with their talking points as the Republicans. It is all slight of hand, all the way around. They fix nothing in terms of jobs and education. Especially education. Everything starts with education. Instead, they print money, bail out the corporations, and leave our children to rot. On the street, or in prison.
Friday, September 3rd 2010 at 3:50PM
Steve Williams
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Wow. I'm speechless reading from you guys and listening to"the Maddow" (not Madcow) do your thang! I agree with Brother Steve....the Democrats haven't done anything are probably worst than the Republicans. I've said it. The TeaParty is starting to look good to me as an alternative party (maybe not now but perhaps in the future when they revamp things a little).
Great blog introduction to your coming back Brother Rich! I'd have to say that it was my generation who embraced intergration and not Barbours'. I don't ever put my true age on any public site, but I can be sure of this fact in the rural South.
As for Maddow, I like her investigative reporting. I'm going to make a point of watching her. Sister Irma get out of that garden for 5 minutes and comment on this blog. I need to hear your thoughts on this blog.
Friday, September 3rd 2010 at 4:23PM
Jen Fad
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You all are too hard on the Democrats.
Don't forget the ridiculously unprecendtend level of complications facing the Obama Administration when they came to power--financial collapse, Two Wars--these two years were all about cleaning up that mess.
All congress can do is pass legislation. And nobody can argue with the fact that this congress has been one of the most productive since the LBJ years. True, it could have been better and more effecitive. But it seems to me they did about as well as they could.
People are going to have to ask themsevles--do we really want to go down that road of shrinking and paralyzing government that the Republicans are pushing?
If people vote their intersest, they won't.
If they fall for the lies, well, we're all in trouble.
Friday, September 3rd 2010 at 4:35PM
Richard Kigel
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Sister Irma
Preach it sistah!
Saturday, September 4th 2010 at 1:41AM
Jen Fad
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Irma--
Glad you weighed in.
Don't worry!
I'll keep you posted on anything you might miss.
Saturday, September 4th 2010 at 9:25AM
Richard Kigel
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I am really glad that somebody else sees the democratic philosophy for what it is. Neither party is willing to relinquish power to fix the mess that they both created. I wonder how much did the American public expect The president to do? After all, those suits dressed alike in the senate and the house have to give their input and it is their approval that gets the bills passed. Until the American attitude nd belief system changes, nothing else will change. Oh, we may get a llittle reprieve from time to time depending on which side you are on, but the idea of the government is to maintain the status quo. A few things on the fringes change from time to time but nothing major. Yes, they took down the sighs but in the aeas that really count, African Americans and other people of color or still facing the glass ceilling and the unemployment lines and inferior educations. At one time, America was the country that taught the world. America was the leader in educantion, and other countries came here to study our system. (Japan and China). Then America integrated the schools and look what happened.
Saturday, September 4th 2010 at 5:34PM
Thomasena Martin-Johnson
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Hi Thomasena, do you believe that integration (I don't mean busing and such) is a good thing or a bad thing?
Saturday, September 4th 2010 at 5:45PM
Adam Fate
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Irma, I agree with you on the busing issue. I think the negative side of this outweighs the (positive?) intent. Are there any other options, or should we just let the chips fall where they may. Or is integration even a good thing to begin with?
Saturday, September 4th 2010 at 6:21PM
Adam Fate
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Hi Adam,
I believe that integration was one of the worst mistakes that Black people made. The answer to fixing our young people and the education of them is to take them and teach them ourselves. Why do we expect for the ones who brought Africans here in the belly of a slave ship, and made them slaves for life will do anything positive for them?
Part of the reason that Black students do not love themseves is because they don't know why they should. If they knew their history from ancient times to the present, it would make all of the difference in the world. We would not have to beg them to become educated and stop killing each other.
People talk about self hate, give them a reason to know that our ancestors were more than a slave, and that what we know of as education today was originated on black soil, in a black country, by black people, long before Europe thawed.
Saturday, September 4th 2010 at 7:07PM
Thomasena Martin-Johnson
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Great discussion!
I totally agree with everything you said about education. But I would add one more qualification--jobs. Every high school student needs to know that there will be a useful role to play after graduation--and that it will take real work and determination to get there. But at the very least everyone should have a meaningful and productive job that they are qualified for.
Where I don't agree:
"integration was one of the worst mistakes that Black people made."
I can't believe you are advocating for a return to Jim Crow separation. I think you mean black independence. The problem with that goal, as several others on this site are forced to confront--is that the interests of all US citizens are mutual. We are all in this together--and it will be better for all of us if we actually work together. (See Dr. King for philosophical and moral support for this position.)
Then: " Why do we expect for the ones who brought Africans here in the belly of a slave ship, and made them slaves for life will do anything positive for them?"
Here I don't understand what you are referring to. Those folks who participated in American Slavery are all long gone. Based on their whereabouts at the moment, they are not in a position to do anything positive for anybody!
Saturday, September 4th 2010 at 7:43PM
Richard Kigel
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I think we have two things here, cultural education, and scholastic education. As far as scholastics, the ends justify the means. Which is to say, it doesn't matter who teaches the kids, so long as they are taught, and succeed. Cultural education seems to be more of a concern for African Americans, as a countermeasure to the slave era, which effects remain with us to the present day. But if we are successful with scholastics, and the resulting economic parity, will culture matter as much?
Saturday, September 4th 2010 at 8:14PM
Adam Fate
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You think dixieCrat Gov. Barbour was raised in the south on "biscuts and home made beans and not salads."
I agree with Adam Fate; and slaverAmericana culture made Gov. Barbour, Rachel, and people that grew up on biscuts and home made beans.
There really is little difference, why argue in english, ebonics or some other homogeneous language; cause the bottom line is just, economics.
Sunday, September 5th 2010 at 8:31AM
robert powell
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Irma, as far as nationality, I am an American. I have many different ancestors, too many to enumerate, and also my knowledge is incomplete. But I am very interested in understanding culture. And is culture identifiable by our words, without explicitly stating what is it. In other words, to test the truth of your statement we all see the the world through the eyes of our culture. Someday we may all have a common American culture. Many Americans do see the world through the eyes of American culture. But is there room for those that see the world through the eyes of God alone?
I do thank you for your precious thoughts.
Sunday, September 5th 2010 at 8:36AM
Adam Fate
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And as Robert points out, American culture needs to change from slaverAmericana to something beyond that is greater.
Sunday, September 5th 2010 at 8:51AM
Adam Fate
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You heard the political; wisdom: "A canddiate campaigns in poetry and goverfns in prose"?
Idealism--it is a beautiful thing. Idealism forces us to reach for our "better angels'.
But politics is "the art of the possible". And in terms of political progress, the Obama administration has already accomplished more and greater things than any administration in forty years.
But at what cost? Idealism had to be sacrificed to pragmatism.
Nobody should ever give up on their ideals. They give us worthy goals to strive for. But always, and inevitably, ideals have to be tempered and molded to fit actual real-life situations.
Clark--I agree--the expectations of the American public were totally unrealistic. To expect any President to "fix" the monumental disasters facing in in 2008 in just two short years is grossly unfair, unrealistic and ridiculous.
But...people vote with their heas not their heads.
So, we find the President and the Democrats struggling.
About the best we can hope for is that enough folks will realize that President Obama is right when he says--and I hope he repeats it over and over and over again--that the same people who drove the car into a ditch are asking for the keys back.
It is a great metaphor because it is memorable, powerful and accurate.
Let's hope it gains some traction.
Sunday, September 5th 2010 at 12:52PM
Richard Kigel
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Rich, it wasn't the politicians that drove the car into the ditch. It was the stock brokers, money lenders, and the federal reserve!
Sunday, September 5th 2010 at 1:02PM
Adam Fate
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wow!!! excellent conversation... here so much to weigh in... I don't know where to start... some one asks about integration, culture, we gotta lil discussion on slavery, so many issues and view points...
Sunday, September 5th 2010 at 1:40PM
Cynthia Merrill Artis
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Clark:
That political analysis you were speaking about--that the republicans fear their base; the democrats hate theirs. The GOP seems to know the psyches of the voters better--and play to their greatest fears--I think is very astute.
I would love to read that article. Can you give me the source?
The silver lining in all this...if there is one...is that the same analysts who are predicting a GOP takeover of Congress are also predicing that the new ultra conservative congress will be unmanageable because they will be unwilling to compromise. The result--near total government paralysis.
Voters who will be sending these clowns to congress to "clean up the mess" will be just as frustrated withtheir impotence as they are with the current Congress.
The same leading pollster predicting a GOP takeover of congress also preedicted that we would see many one term congressmen and Senators, , mirroring what happened to the Reagan "Revolution" in 1988. Many of those swept into office with RR were swept out a few years later. Buyers remorse.
Sunday, September 5th 2010 at 1:49PM
Richard Kigel
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Right, Cynthia! Great conversation. I have learned so much!
I love it!!!!
Sunday, September 5th 2010 at 1:51PM
Richard Kigel
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You know, Clark--you make so much strategic sense.
I know there are a lot of really smart Democratic strategists out there--Carville, Brazile and others--are they saying some of the same things you are?
I hope so.
Sunday, September 5th 2010 at 1:53PM
Richard Kigel
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Adam--
You are so right. Sadly-- it was the stock brokers, money lenders, and the federal reserve who drove the car into the ditch. But as much power and influence as they have over markets and financial insitutitions, they were not in control of our government priorities. It was the Republican administration that turned a budget surplus into massive deficits by misguided tax policies and two off the budget wars.
It was previous Republican Administrations that nearly eliminated oversight over industry and Wall Street, allowing a wild west atmosphere to run wild.
Matter of fact, the single largest source of deficit for the budget was the Bush tax cuts for the top 2 percent. Simply letting them expire reduces the deficit significantly.
If the REpublicans have the opportunity to gain power over the budget, they will do it again.
Sunday, September 5th 2010 at 2:01PM
Richard Kigel
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Good afternoon,
I go to sleep and wake up to find that raised some issues. When I refer to white people, I am talking about the man with the white supremist attitude and belief. If the SHOE DOES NOT FIT, DON'T WEAR IT.
First, i want to respond to the jim crow issue. NO NO NO, I do not mean to return. I fully support de segregation. I have the right to enjoy all that this country offers and so do you. What I meant was, after the desegregation of the schools, the entire structure of education changed. The standards were lowered, academics were decreased and as white flight took place. those who were left were left with an inferior system and nobody cared. Black people dropped the ball in not policing the system and noticing that the same system they fought for was no longer in tact. That is what I mean when I say "allow him to fix it for us". They did alright. We never should have left our children in the hands of the enemy.
Before integration, under the segregated system, Douglass High School in Oklahoma City, produced as many as 11 national merit scholars a year. Today, there are none. Before integration Black student were taught their history beause Black parents and teachers knew the value of that information. Mind you, some of the information was in the books that were used but in white america, all of the major accomplishments were taught as white, Cleoparta, and Egyptians were white, the people from the middle east were white, the cradle of civillization was in Greese, the father of mathematics was white, the father of medicine was white, Socretes was white etc. The problem is that the students were not taught by anyone and that is still the case.
Now, much of that information is left out of the books so the following generations do not and will not know unless somebody teaches it without the book. Just as Barbour rewrote history, so have others. I have a friend who said that in 100 years, martin Luther King will be white. They have already begun to refine his features just like they did Alexander Hamilton. There are white people already calling Obama White because his mother was white. Another rewrite of history. In America, the only people who were racially identified by the mother were slaves and that was only if the slavemaster was the father.
Make no mistake about it, racism 2010 is the residue of making Africans slaves for life. How else can they justify the inferiority of the Black man to the white man, after all it took three of them to equal one white man, never mind he is the one in all the world with something missing. The white supermacy attitute prevails all over the world, yet he is the true minority.
Just as some black people believe the misinformation so do some whites.
Why is so much time used to make laws and repeal laws and such crap to keep the underdog in line. How much paper is used to control the Black man in America? Why is he the designee in the Constitution?
Don't get me wrong, I think that under the circumstances, Obama has done remarkably well. The country was in the ditch. if the two parties had done such a great job, why is the educational system in such a mess? Because those that "really matter" left the system and those who were left did not matter. I support our President 200%. I think he was brave to take on the country's decay but many of us stood by and let this happen while we fought over who likes us and who does not. How important is that? Just be sure you like yourself and can sleep at night.
The most vocal of the republicans need all of the programs proposed by the other side. The are too dumb to know that. People like some who cater to the tea party and in that group so were the ones who opposed the healthcare bill. How many of them will be willing to give up their social security? How many of them know that the poor working man pay for the pension the politicians and their wives receive especially the President. All of that comes under the welfare system.
Many Black people get complacient after the hoopla and some do not think there is anything they can do about anything because they are Black. That is the reason many of them do not consider this country belonging to them even when they have relatives fighting in Iraq or have fought in other wars. That is true disenfranchisement. Some Black people believe that when they say it will change, they expect it to change. By the time they figure out that it hasn't changed, years have passed.
I hope I explained what I meant better this time. All I am saying is that Black America needs to take charge of its own destiny, become pro active and become informed. After all, one little tired black woman began the bus boycott and the Underground Railroad.
Sunday, September 5th 2010 at 3:00PM
Thomasena Martin-Johnson
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Hi,
When I spoke about changing in education, When I started teaching, a high school student could take courses in high school, free, that could prepare them for the work place. After integration, all of that changed and every body was pointed toward college even though they were not preparing them to do so. All of the skilled jobs were removed and those who could not make it into college were left waving in the wind.
Sunday, September 5th 2010 at 3:07PM
Thomasena Martin-Johnson
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Rich,
The brainwashing of inferiority is alive and well within the Black community. Many of the issues of self worth have been handed down from one generation to another. If a student doesn't know anybody black as the president of a company how will they know that idea is available to them. If they don't see black pilots, why would they think they could fly a plane? Now in many instances, the Black youth do not know how they are limiting themselves unless someone points it out to them. This same picture applies to the Mexican youth and the Native American youth. When they see all accomplishments made by white people how would they believe that they could do the same thing unless somebody tell them so?
Sunday, September 5th 2010 at 3:16PM
Thomasena Martin-Johnson
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Rich, the budget surplus was due to the stock market boom and subsequent housing market boom, and the tax increases they brought. The deficit was the result of the stock market bust and the housing market bust, and the tax decrease they brought. The only credit the government can take is through manipulation via the Federal Reserve, a secret organization. Get rid of the Central Bank and the situation will be entirely different. Get rid of the War Machine, and the situation will be totally different. Republicans and Democrats are birds of a feather. It has nothing to do with this or that administration!
Sunday, September 5th 2010 at 3:41PM
Adam Fate
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Ahhh, yes, Thomasena!
Thank you for taking the time and making the effort to add some nuance, history and culture to your explanation. Now I get it. And I can agree with everything you are saying 100%.
I love this kind of conversation because it is so smart and wise. I feel like you all have raised my IQ just by the simple fact that I can participate!!!
Sunday, September 5th 2010 at 3:58PM
Richard Kigel
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This is great.... I would consider this conversation an on-line class in History, Economics, Philosophy, African-American History.... I'm going to "print this page" there is alot to read and digest here!
Sunday, September 5th 2010 at 4:09PM
Cynthia Merrill Artis
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You all... are really making my inquisitive mind thirsty for knowledge... Thanks!!!
Sunday, September 5th 2010 at 4:11PM
Cynthia Merrill Artis
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Adam:
I have very little understanding of economics--but that sounds a little simplistic to me. Your analysis omits the Reagan administration's nearly total deregulation of business and markets that allowed Wall Street, the Banks and major industries, including the oil giants to operate just about at will. The only imperative was to maintain their own profits no matter the consequences.
According to the CBO, the Bush tax cuts were the single biggest factor accounting for that Clinton era surplus to magically disappear.
And, you neglected to mention the massive strain on the economy due to the WAr in Iraq.
All these were political initiatives to pass new laws initiated by the Administration and by Congress.
So I do agree with everything you say--except for the reasons why they were allowed to occur.
And by the way--thanks for the conversation!!!
Sunday, September 5th 2010 at 6:21PM
Richard Kigel
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Rich,
The Internet got its start during the Reagan administration, I was developing the underlying technology for it starting in 1983. I was co-founder of a venture capital funded startup in 1988, a company that laid the groundwork with the technology that everyone takes for granted today. This was all during the Reagan administration, and all this time the stock market was in a slump. in 1991 I started with another VC funded startup and we went public in 1994. By 1998 the stock of that company had increased by 3500%. Clinton got lucky and happened to be there after much of the work had already been done, and being the good politician he was, he took credit for it all. But it was Reagan and Sr. Bush that were in office when the WWW groundwork was being laid. They facilitated the business environment necessary for its development. The bubble expanded during the Clinton administration, 1992-2000. Early in 2001 Telecom crashed (prior to 9/11). Jr. Bush inherited the bubble bursting. If any administration can take credit for the Internet and the new age it ushered in, it was Reagan's.
Sunday, September 5th 2010 at 8:23PM
Adam Fate
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It was also during the Reagan administration that a major event took place, without which the Internet never would have happened. That was the breakup of AT&T, around 1982.
Sunday, September 5th 2010 at 8:26PM
Adam Fate
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Adam:
Wow! AmazIng!
I find it interesting--and truly ironic--that considering your high tech background your identifying photo is a picture of the most primitive kind of technology--an arrowhead!
Thank you for sharing!!!
Sunday, September 5th 2010 at 9:22PM
Richard Kigel
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Thank-you Rich for a great blog! The arrowhead was made for me by my son. It is an almost perfect replica of an original which, if I remember correctly, dates from around 3000-6000 years ago.
Sunday, September 5th 2010 at 9:40PM
Adam Fate
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Oh, and it is actually a spear point. It measures about 3" long and would have been used on large mammals such as buffalo.
Sunday, September 5th 2010 at 9:53PM
Adam Fate
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And...for its time the precision necessary for those points to hit their mark and withstand the test of time was superior technology.
Monday, September 6th 2010 at 2:37AM
Thomasena Martin-Johnson
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Thomasena, they also invented something called an atlatl, a throwing stick which provided greater velocity and accuracy when throwing the spear.
Monday, September 6th 2010 at 2:49AM
Adam Fate
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Don't forget the destruction of the unions. De regulation of just about every thing was used to widen the economic gap and creat the jobless. Most things in America do not happen by accident. The distruction of the educational system was deliberate, the lack of affordable healthcare is also deliberate; the unemployment rate is planned. Nixon said that we will always have the poor. America can send a man to the moon and get him back but they cannot control the borders between us and Mexico or stop the drugs from coming into this country? As Bill Cosby said "Come On People. I'll bet the insurance companies did not experience economic desaster. T Construction did not stop in my city.
Monday, September 6th 2010 at 2:56AM
Thomasena Martin-Johnson
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In respect to what Clark said about gravitating to what is comfortable, the WS(White Supremist) believe that what we really wanted was to associate with them, live with them, eat with them etc. They are usually shocked when they find out that we didn't even like them much less want to be with them. We wanted EQUAL ACCESS. I m of the opinion that integration failed anyway. I still prefer to pick my company on all levels. I don't think that all of us knew that either. We took some wooden nickles.
Monday, September 6th 2010 at 3:07AM
Thomasena Martin-Johnson
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Thomasena is in Teaching and Educating Season!
---Thank you
Monday, September 6th 2010 at 8:49AM
robert powell
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Wow!
Dr. Artis was right. This conversation is like graduate level civics, sociology and anthropology combined!
The level of knowledge, intelligence, schoalrship and wisdom on display here is off the charts!
GLORIOUS!!!
Monday, September 6th 2010 at 9:24AM
Richard Kigel
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Thanks Professor Maxwell!
Now we can add Political Theory and Economics to our Graduate Course.
I'm glad nobody is testing me on this and I don't have to do any papers--but it has been quite an education for me.
It makes me THINK!!!
Monday, September 6th 2010 at 10:52AM
Richard Kigel
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The Internet did indeed start with ARPANET. And TCP/IP was their invention, though there was a time that ISO was pushing for a beter set of protocols at he Network and Transport layers. However TCP/IP was already entrenched and those standards lost out to TCP/IP.
Prior to 1983 there was no ability to switch data natively through a telecom network. Data had to be turned into analog first. The first time digital signals were sent through a WAN was between the DEC VAX and a Northern Telecom SL-1 PBX. I was part of the team that accomplished this.
Later efforts to carry data through the WAN were development of BRI and PRI interfaces. It was at this time I developed a 32 channel HDLC controller, which was needed to handle the 32 TDM channels of the European version of PRI, based on the earlier E1 technology. In the U.S. PRI was based on T1, with 24 TDM channels. This invention was patented in 1988 (maybe '89, too lazy to look it up).
After BRI and PRI came DSL, and more importantly the integration of LAN and WAN networks. This was accomplished in the early '90s. I am talking here about network infrastructure. Naturally the WWW was built on top of the infrastructure.
I still contend that Reagan's trickle down economics did indeed work. It is certainly a better concept than printing money that has no value to back it up.
Monday, September 6th 2010 at 1:57PM
Adam Fate
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Clark, that leaves us in something of a dilemma doesn't it? Unless we are willing to cut unnecessary spending, such as trillions on unwarranted wars?
Monday, September 6th 2010 at 3:25PM
Adam Fate
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Okay, who is there in politics that will really take us back to a policy of non-intervention? I only know one, do you know of any?
Monday, September 6th 2010 at 5:02PM
Adam Fate
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Or that any will. Politics is big business and the fat cats are getting richer. Believe me, if money wasn't being made, something else would be happening. My mother used to say that the US spent millions buying friendship. That expense has become the national debt and the super market has fewer who are willing, and even fewer who need us.
Tuesday, September 7th 2010 at 11:11AM
Thomasena Martin-Johnson
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Right--and all that said...what is a citizen to do?
Clearly the political system is broken and corrupted. But we still need to vote on election day. One of the candidates will certainly be more honest and more truly civic minded than another.
But how can a sytem so thoroughly entrenched and comprimised ever be reformed? I mean REALISTICALLY???
Personally, I have no idea.
Tuesday, September 7th 2010 at 11:55AM
Richard Kigel
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Irma, I understand God as Creator, however any religious thought expresses that. You may thin of me as pan-religious.
As created beings, we take on the nature of the Creator, and are ourselves creators. Creators of Good or Evil is the question.
None of us knows the number of our days. As you say, we must do our best to leave the world better than we found it. Not only must we educate each other, but most importantly, we must pass on our knowledge to those that follow us. The generations to come will inherit our good or evil doings.
Tuesday, September 7th 2010 at 6:39PM
Adam Fate
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And Irma, sometimes we are not even experts on our own selves.
Tuesday, September 7th 2010 at 9:01PM
Adam Fate
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Irma--
Thank you. That RAchel is something else...
Tuesday, September 7th 2010 at 9:36PM
Richard Kigel
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sister johnson
teach, showcase your skillz
i believe if we have educated blacks thinking on this level
it needs to be broadcast ! you go girl !
Tuesday, September 7th 2010 at 10:06PM
DAVID JOHNSON
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Rich, what is a citizen to do? Here are two possibilities:
http://bipartisanpolicy.org/
In this one, they promote bipartisanship, but do the promote correct policies? The second:
http://chooseliberty.org/c4lrising.aspx?pi...
Here is a group, which while you may not agree with their agenda, is doing something to help the citizenry to understand the candidates in a way that citizens cannot just by watching the TV and other ads. Although we can do the research ourselves, I think this will be a great help to have the results of this survey at hand. And they are raising money fast.
Wednesday, September 8th 2010 at 11:00AM
Steve Williams
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Irma:
That is one of the most wonderful compliments I have ever received.
The key point I would like to make sure everybody understands is that the reason I can identify so deeply with black history and the black struggle is because I am HUMAN!!!
Thank you again from the bottom of my heart!!!
Wednesday, September 8th 2010 at 2:22PM
Richard Kigel
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Thank you Steve!!!!
Always good to hear from you.
Wednesday, September 8th 2010 at 2:26PM
Richard Kigel
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Rich,
I agree with Irma, or maybe that is what is being human. It isn't your fault that that you weren't in the correct line when they handed out the the drop lol. look at it this way, I know some people who look like you with 2 black parents, and some of them are in my family and i played with them every day. When I was little, I didn't know that **** and Jane were white; they were just children and Jane looked like Darlene in my home town and **** looked like one of my cousins..
Wednesday, September 8th 2010 at 2:44PM
Thomasena Martin-Johnson
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Thomasena:
Great point! In actual fact, there are folks the world classfies as "white" whose skin color is darker than some folks who the world thinks are black.
That is why the phrase "the color of water" is such a powerful way to look at racial classifications because it is goes to the actual substance and essence of the thing--in this case Hydrogen and oxygen molecules--that have no color.
And with us human creatures, it is the eternal spirit that is so much more significant than the physical body.
We were all created in God's image. Period.
Wednesday, September 8th 2010 at 3:09PM
Richard Kigel
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"...See the world through the eyes of God... Organized religion uses the term GOD to confuse the public. Organized religion was created to control the masses. It worked hand in hand with the leaders, Kings and educators, to control. Most of the people who profess to be super religious and believe everything that is in the bible to be the unvarnished truth, most of the time, do nothingn in there thenselves. That is the reason WS teachings, say that all you have to do is believe that Jesus died for your sins and is your savior and you will go to heaven regardless to what you do. That is why a certain segment of the population do what they do. Not only do they rewrite history, they have rewritten the bible or just ignored what was in there. Ex: confess sins and ASK for forgiveness. Some christians teach that you don't have to ask, it is already done. so they ignore the part where Jesus said ASK.
If we see GOD as man, we are in trouble. God is a POWER greater than man and since some people have to name everything, he named him GOD.( a little fallout from the pagan era).
The KKK rode under the guise of protecting "White Christian America". That is why racism is so prevelent here,; they used the bible to justify the laws they created and all of the other crap they did. Thy shall not lie and thy shall not kill meant nothing to him. So which preception of God are we discussing, the one translated to the masses or the Power man cannot control?
Wednesday, September 8th 2010 at 3:26PM
Thomasena Martin-Johnson
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Thomasena, my perception of God is simple. God said: let us create humankind in our image" The image referred to is "mind". So let's use our minds that God gave us. We are creators, so let us create Good, in the image of the Creator.
Wednesday, September 8th 2010 at 3:38PM
Steve Williams
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To know we are created, we need only look at DNA. DNA is a program, an algorithm if you will.
Wednesday, September 8th 2010 at 3:42PM
Steve Williams
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We are more than ready for the truth. The lack of it is the reason the so called black community is in such an identity crisis. Believe me, give them an identity, and most will change. They are just fulfilling expectations. Give them new expectations. I assigned my students a twenty page paper in a research class, some of the staff said that the paper was beyond their capibilities. I told the students what was said and asked them if they were going to make those people liers. Out of a class of 22, I received 18 papers and 5 A's. First time with such success. The other 4 dropped the class.
This is why I keep saying, take our kids back. Get them away from those who tell them they can't and give them to someone who says they can. Not only did we loose ground with NCLB but also we lost ground in integration. I am for de-segregation but we need to control our own destiny and not leave it up to people who bought their degree and were mediocer students.
Wednesday, September 8th 2010 at 3:46PM
Thomasena Martin-Johnson
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Adam,
You decide who you are and what you call yourself and the rest of them. Your word is as good as his. I refuse to let him tell me who I am and that goes of black people who think I don't want to be black. My answer to them is, I have mirrors all over my house and I look in them every day. WE as a group of people need to decide who we are. That is why my ancestors are important to me and I must know what they did and I read nd understand very well.
As a group of people, they have not decided who they are and what they want to me called. Name you and yours and forget the rest. I don't really care what others think about me or who they think I am. The only important thing is that you know who you are.
Wednesday, September 8th 2010 at 3:55PM
Thomasena Martin-Johnson
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Thomasena, I think it extremely interesting that one of the first passages in the bible says "let US create". Christians will almost unanimously say this refers to the trinity. This I do not believe. I believe that "mind" is present in lower life forms, but also "mind" is present in higher life forms. I don't know the character of the life form that created me, but I don't believe that "image" refers to the physical. I believe it refers to "mind". Thus we have a mind like unto our creator(s). And having that mind, we have free will, to do good or to do evil.
Wednesday, September 8th 2010 at 4:16PM
Steve Williams
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So does skin color matter? It is all in the mind.
Wednesday, September 8th 2010 at 4:22PM
Steve Williams
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Thomasena:
What am amazing story about your students and how you changed their expectations and spurred them to success.
As a teacher myself, I LOVE it!!!
Keep the faith!!!
Wednesday, September 8th 2010 at 8:07PM
Richard Kigel
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Steve,
Skin color only matters if you want to avoid skin cancer. What really matters is the heart of the person. Blood doesn't depend on skin color, organ transplants do not depend on skin color and love does not depend on skin color. Like I said before, We are all more or less human and that is what counts.
Wednesday, September 8th 2010 at 8:28PM
Thomasena Martin-Johnson
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Hello Adam,
You were asked the question Why Are You Concerned About Black America:
Your answer was this, “African Americans need to achieve the goals defined by the Civil Rights movement.”
If you notice you did not answer the question correctly since you referred to Black Americans in the question as African-Americans, am I right.
Therefore, before your opinion about achieving the goals as defined by the Civil Rights movement could be taken seriously I need to be comfortable that you are not a nut case. In other words, you have the mentality to respond to specific questions asked and not answer questions not asked.
I am saying that the question asked you about Black Americans, but your answer was about African Americans. Perhaps you do not know that they are differences between a Black American and an African American.
Am I making any sense with you?
Tell me what you think.
Wednesday, September 8th 2010 at 11:18PM
Harry Watley
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Hello to All, but especially to Ms. Thomasina,
Black Americans cannot and will not continue in uncertainties and variables. For the past 500 years Black Americans has been in a predicament of uncertainties and variables, am I right. These uncertainties and variables have to do with our education, our goals, our civil rights etc.
So that you understand what I am saying, I will say this. Our education and goals has to be different from what White America’s goals are since Black Americans are not White Americans. Our goals must exceed White America’s goals and expectations that they have set for themselves. Therefore, in order that our goals would exceed White America’s goals means that Black Americans must become a sovereign people or have complete independence from White America on a portion of this continent that we could call our very own country with borders to pursue life, liberty, happiness and prosperity in our own way. Am I making any sense with you?
Tell me what you think.
Wednesday, September 8th 2010 at 11:28PM
Harry Watley
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Harry, I know who are the people referred to by the question. But just because the questioner phrased the question a certain way does not mean I need to use a word I don't like. I don't like the word black when referring to people. I will continue to use the phrase African American. If you prefer Black American, that is your choice.
Thursday, September 9th 2010 at 12:31AM
Adam Fate
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Me. "I" stamd by we have such a proud and unique culture unitl if we are taught about it from an African-centered manner we would have too mcuh pride in who we are until we would not only not do harm to each other we would make sure no harm came to us (the individual) period. example,
SLAVERY IS SOMETHING "I" AM PROUD WE SURVIVED...LIFE ITSELF IS A TEACHING MOMENT WHICH WE SHOULD USE TO GROW IN ORDER TO MAKE IT BETTER FOR THE NEXT AND THE NEXT GENERATION OF OUR RACE'S ALONG WITH ALL OF MANKIND. (SMILE)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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...and Adam, I do agree with you 110%..and this is the reason "I" believe in for every action there is always going to be a reaction ...and, why "I' don't believe in good / bad, right/ wrong but only in steping tnto the other person's shoes and trying to see things from their point of view. ..
WHICH (for me)LEAVES EVERY PERSON, PLACE, THING AS RELATED IN SOME WAY, FORM, FASHION ON THE PLANET.even the universe (SMILE)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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STOP, LOOK AND LISTEN...as w-e continue to place the blame of how our government works/ our governments does not work on everyone but those who are the only ones responsiable for their own o-n-e vote but that 'voter' him /herself?!?...
ONLY IN AMERICA DO WE REFUSE TO "WAKE UP"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...
(nup)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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..all who have done some research on those they plan to vote for and those they plan to vote against, please raise your hands... (smile)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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..."I" will say this then shut up...
WHAT CAME OR NOW COMES TO YOUR MIND WHEN THE RIGHT SAYS THEY MUST TAKE THIS COUNTRY BACK...IF 'BACK DOES NOT MEAN BACK TO PE CIVIL RIGHTS ERA' THEN YOU CAN JUST FORGET ABOUT EVEN TAKING PART IN TEH POLITICAL DEBATE ON THE RIGHT OR THE LEFT...BECAUSE OF THE TRUTH IN THOSE WHO FORGET HISTORY ARE DOOMED TO REPEAT IT IS IN PLAY HERE IN THE 2010 ELECTION CYCLE...
(SMILE)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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@JEN, AS FOR ME ANYONE WHO SAYS THAT THE 60S HAS NOT PLACE IN THE 2010 IS ALREADY BACKING THE TEAPARTY'S QUEST TO RETURN TO JIM CROW...
aND ALL THIS PERSON IS SOING TO REINVENT HISTORY IS ONLY TRYING TO OUT RACIST THE GOVERNOR OF aRIZOAN...
AND, WHY i JUST SAID THOSE WHO FORGET HISTORY ARE DOOMED TO REPEAT IT...BUT A LITTLE THING HAPPENED ON THE WAY TO THE VOTING BOOTH, THE FEAR OF J.F.K. COMES IN AND HAS ANYONE NOTICED HOW NOW THAT THE FIRST WHITE NONCHRISTIAN (OR CATHOLIC PRESIDENT AND HOW RELIGION WAS USED AS A FEAR MONGER HAS HAD AN EFFECT ONT THE N.Y. MOSQUE?????? ...
EDUCATE!!!EDUCATE!!!EDUCATE!!!!...NOW REREAD WHAT I JUST WORTE AND LOOK AT IT FROM ANOTHER ANGLE CALLED PLAIN OLD EVERY DAY COMMON SENSE AND NOT A MEDIA FRENZY TO HELP IN THE NEED TO USE AT LEAST TOW RESOURCES...O.K. LOL(SMILE)
..THANKS RICH AD RACHAEL IS THE BEST FOR HELPING TO EDUCATE THE PUBLIC IN COMING INTO THE REAL WORLD. TOO MANY ON TEH RIGHT HAVE FUTURE COURT DATES (AS SEENON RACHAEL AND KEITH FOR ME TO EVEN WORRY ABOUT THOSE ON THE RIGHT TAKING OVER CONGRESS- FOR VERY LONG ANY WAY...(OTFL)(SMILE)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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OH drat...I had to go out so tonight was one of the rare ones that i missed her programs...so I guess I will have ato go the next three days without her. (smile)
I AM SURE THAT FOX IS GLAD FOR THIS BREAK.......
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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Adam, you did not ask me the question...but for me 'bussing' violates the rights of CHOICE as well as FREEDOM OF ASSEMBLY. (SMILE)
A LITTLE OF TOO MUCH BIG GOVERNMENT- big brother IN OUR private LIVES...
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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Thomasena...I can not tell you how grateful I am to hear those words come out of the mouth of someone out side of my generation...
I am so old school my children have passed onto my grandchildren that the parents rule and after that no one has a say in the family manner / IN ALL MATTERS RELATED TO raising the YOUTHS who live under your roof, END OF STORY. (SMILE)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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EDUCATE!!!EDUCATE!!!EDUCATE!!! (SMILE)
BUT, EDUCATE PROPERLY. example,
anyone reading reading ON THE WINGS OF THE WIND (THE UNTOLD STORY OF HISTORY'S FIRST FLIGHT)...
WOULD ALMOST AUTOMATICALLY BELIEVE THAT RICHARD KIGEL IS A 'BLACK MAN'. (otfl) (SMILE)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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nO rICH, IT IS MY BELIEF THAT WHEN WE AS A PEOPLE SAY WE BELIEVE INTERGRATION WAS A MAJOR MISTAKE...it is more about forced assimulation than ABOUT white only, black only...
the greatest example is we have a mother centered culture and youhave a father centered culture...brother cow can you see where I am coming from??? another great example is in our culture our children are taught to hold their heands down when being corrected ect. as a sign of respect, otheres out side of our culture see this as a sign of guilt...
and another great example is you your ownself Rich...
YOU HAVE AT LEAST PROVEN TO ME THAT YOU HAVE MOE INTEREST IN OUR CULTURE, OUR HISTORY AS RELATED TO THE REAL WORLD THAT MOST OF MY PEOPLE DO...AND, WITH KNOWLEDGE COMES RESPECT AND, THIS IS WHY INTERGRATION WAS NOT GOOD FOR US OR FOR ANY OF OUR COUNTRY AS WE ARE NOT YET READY FOR TRUTH AND NOT POINTING TEH FINGER OF BLAME ON OUR OWNSELVES, Y-E-T. (SMILE)
EDUCATE!!!EDUCATE!!!EDUCATE!!! SO WE CAN SAVE OURSELVES FROM OUR SLEVES. LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL (SMILE) ...
MUCH LOV TO ALL OF US...
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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...WITH (PROPER) EDUCATION COMES F-A-I-T-H AND W-I-S-D-O-M.AND, SO MUCH LESS OF MINE IS BETTER THEN YOURS KINDS OF CLOSED MINDED, MIND CONTROL (SMILE)...
such a great post brother Cow as always...and, I hope everyone now has their own copy of Rich's ON THE WINGS OF THE WIND...LOOOOOOOOOL...
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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ADAM, IF i MAY ASK WHAT NATIONALITY ARE YOU...AND, IF YOU BELIEVE YOU ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT PERSON ON EARTH? (SMILE)
NO THIS IS MORE ABOUT WHERE YOU BELIEVE YOU CAME FROM AND HOW DOES THIS AFFECT/ EFFECT WHERE YOU WANT TO GO...ME, i AM MORE INTO THE INDIVIDUAL AS BEING RESPONSIABLE THAN SOMEONE ELSE BEING RESPONSIABLE FOR OTHERS AS S SOCIETY, RACE, NATIONALITY OR GROUP...WITH ME IT IS NEVER PERSONAL ONLY ABOUT DIALOGUE WHICH TO ME HAS NO RIGHT OR NO WRONG. (SMILE)...PLUS...
I BELIEVE THAT SAYING ABOUT WE ALL SEE THE WORLD THROUGH THE EYES OF OUR CULTURE TO BE TRUE. (SMILE)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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...oh, and before anyone gets off track about what I mean but culture...I am Black and was born in the south...I grew up eating biscuts and home made beans and not salads..Ebonics was my first language and we called all adults never by their first names...we do not believe in abortion nor old folk homes nor gooing to the doctors for a simple cold but used home remedy passed down from generations to generations as well as our history as a people, ect....
things like are now being allowed to be taught in colleges abour our race and our direct ties to Africa not our ties as slaves, but as proud peoples / human beings, ect.after majoring in African-study I became even more proud of who my people are and where we began as a culture...sort of like a lot of teh gaps being filled in that has been lost orally but has been recorded never the less....this is to me PRIDE EVEN IN HAVING BEEN HELD IN SLAVERY BECAUSE THIS WE HAVE SURVIVED AND IN TACT. (SMILE)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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AND, WITH YOUR COMMENT ABOUT SLAVERY, i PRAY THAT YOU ARE NOT AFRICAN-aMERICAN NOR NATIVE-AMERICAN, NOR JAPANESE-AMERICAN OR ANYTHING ELSE WITH" -AMERICAN" (SMILE)...and, I have had some of eh best teachers and professors and I am still learning disabled as far as things with numbers in them so I see teaching and teachers different than you do also, Adam...which keeps me in that no right and no wrong zone. (smile)
BECAUSE THIS IS ALL OF A MAJOR PART OF HOW AMERICA BECAME AMERICA. LOL...(SMILE)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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I have not read any comments beyond ADams statement ot one day we may see the world through the eyes of God...@ Adam...
seeing the world by way of G-O-D is mostly why "I" am no longer a Christian...as it is the Holy Bible's use that got Africans classified as not human in the first place...but as a person of logic it was with the help of Clarlk , MIISRAEL TO NAME BUT A FEW ON THIS VERY SIGHT THAT HELPED ME TO REALIZE IT WAS NOT G-O-D, BUT THE ABUSE ? use of MANKIND UNDER THE LABLE OF GOD THAT HAS MANKIND SO SCREWED UP UNTIL THE VERY, VERY LAST THING THEY ARE GOING TO DO IS OBEY THE WORDS OF G-O-D (no matter what name he/she is called)...
Adam, it is m-y choice to IDENTIFY AS AFRICAN-AMERICAN...AND MY DEMAND TO BE RESPECTED FOR BEING THE ONLY EXPERT ON ME THAT MAKES ME PROUD OF WHO I AM AS DECENDANT OF PEOPLE FROM THE 'MOTHER LAND' AFRICA...
MY LIFE...
MY CHOICE...
MY (AS THE INDIVIDUAL) CULTURE IS MY PAST OF WHICH "I" USE TO MAKE THE PRESENT THE BEST IT CAN BE , AND FOR THE FUTURE Of MY LEAVING THIS LIFE/ PLANET BETTER TEHN "I" FOUND IT TO BE...(SMILE)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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NOW THAT I HAVE READ THE COMMENTS...ONCE AGAIN 'I' WILL USE THAT EXPRESSION OF..." I SAW THE ENEMY AND IT WAS US"!!! example, how many of us have rased their hands to having done research on the person tHEy voted for / WILL BE VOTING FOR (or even voteD / WILL VOTE)...
why are we settling for the illusions that put together the 13 years of these two wars cost no money...any protest seen as ao many jobs have , gas prices close our schools, fire departments and police departments (at least here in Ca.)left this country until nothing has MADE iN aMERICAN ON IT(AND YET WE ACT AS IF THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH The pPRESENT ECONOMY)...shame on us...
AND AFTER HUNDREDS OF YEARS OF TERRORISING BLACKS, JEWS, GAYS HAS THE KKK BEEN CALLED TERRORIST...
I AM ABOUT TO WRITE A BLOG ON WHY IS BURNING TEH HOLY BOOK OF A NON CHRISTIAN NOT SEEN AS AN ATTACK ON G-O-D????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!?...
ANYONE KNOW HAOW AND WHY AMERICA IS TEH ONLY COUNTRY TO HAVE EVER DONE THESE TWO THINGS...
1. HAD CHATTEL SLAVERY
2. DROPED TWO NUCLEAR BOMBS ON THEIR FELLOW MAN...
DO WE GET A PASS ON THIS BECAUSE WE ARE AC-H-R-I-S-T-I-A-N COUNTRY OR IS THIS GOING TO BE SEEN AS A P-O-L-I-T-I-C-A-L MOVE OR JUST AN EXTENTION ON OUR PRESIDENT'S LEGAL AND MORAL RIGHTS TO ATTEND THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH OF HIS CHOOSING FOR 25 YEARS?????..OR OBEYING THE 10 COMMANDMENTS???? OR JUST MORE OF 'ONLY IN AMERICA????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...
AS MY N.D.B. PRACTICE SAYS FOR EVERY 'CAUSE' THERE IS AN 'EFFECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(NUP + SMILE)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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Adam, in my practice, each and everyone of us is due respect as members of the human race therefore we are all equal...I do not see anyone as a religion, nor a place nor in need of me to put a vlaue on as "I" am not an expert on anyone but my own self...
and, Adam I promise you sometimes "I" don't even like my ownself. lol...
but this is to me just being human. ..LOV the post brother Cow.smile)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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