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@Jake, in the realworld of the (war) conflict in Viet Nam no matter teh skin color, gender or creed if you were an American you were not allowed even to put bullets in your guns with the premission of you Viet Nam handler.
EDUCATE!!!EDUCATE!!!EDUCATE!!! (SMILE)
Tuesday, November 13th 2012 at 12:58PM
Irma Robinson
This is not education! This statement was posted
Tuesday, November 13th 2012 at 4:07PM
Earl Brown
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on Mr. Sanford's blog, titled..."You're In The Army Now...Really?"
Tuesday, November 13th 2012 at 4:09PM
Earl Brown
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This is not Education... it's deplorable. It is an dis-service to those men...who gave thier lives!!
Tuesday, November 13th 2012 at 4:14PM
Earl Brown
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Hallo to All,
Whether you all know it or not what you all are doing is crying out to God that things are not right especially when you say it is deplorable and how we gave our lives to White America. You are crying out to God for help to change things and make things right.
Well, God has heard your cries and that is why I am here. It is through me that God will make things permanently right for us. Likewise, it was through Moses that God change and made things right for the Children of Israel, am I right.
I have told you all that our only permanent solution is our sovereignty and having a country of our own. You all must want to become a sovereign people. You must want it. It is going to happen anyway. Those of you all who are against Black America’s sovereignty will be washed away.
Well, I told you how and what you should worship.
Tuesday, November 13th 2012 at 4:38PM
Harry Watley
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Based on discussions with veterans of previous conflicts spanning back to the Vietnam War, ordering troops to conduct patrols or to man a security post with weapons on amber status is actually quite common. In Vietnam, troops were typically ordered to patrol with weapons on amber, however the order was rarely followed or enforced.
From: FIGHTING A WAR WITHOUT BULLETS?
http://www.humanevents.com/2010/05/25/figh...
Wednesday, November 14th 2012 at 1:51AM
Steve Williams
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Bill Befort said...
My 9th Div unit in the Delta in '67 adopted the empty-chamber rule after some yoyo got shot pulling himself out of a drainage ditch by the muzzle end of another man's M16. It was a dead letter from the word go, and for some reason the people who issued it never showed up in the point squad to see if it was being followed.
Harp said...
I was with the MPs in Viet Nam. We were not allowed to have a round in the chamber. Get caught and it was an Article 15. Only the point man was allowed a round in the chamber. One of my company commanders violated that rule and had an AD. The BN CO removed him from his command.
http://www.blackfive.net/main/2010/05/ambe...
Wednesday, November 14th 2012 at 2:08AM
Steve Williams
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This information isn't easy to find. The rules of engagement during the Vietnam War were declassified in 1985. Short of going through the documentation itself, I don't know how to get a definitive answer. As you can imagine, the documentation is quite lengthy.
Wednesday, November 14th 2012 at 3:34AM
Steve Williams
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I did find this note in connection with the Beirut bombing in 1983. I only include the first two items on the card.
Marines carried a "White Card" bearing the following text:
The mission of the Multi-national Force (MNF) is to keep the peace. The following rules of engagement will be read and fully understood by all members of the United States contingent of the MNF:
—When on post, mobile or foot patrol, keep a loaded magazine in the weapon, weapons will be on safe, with no rounds in the chamber.
—Do not chamber a round unless instructed to do so by a commissioned officer unless you must act in immediate self-defense where deadly force is authorized.
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=AD...
Wednesday, November 14th 2012 at 6:25AM
Steve Williams
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BTW, for anyone who has a gun for home defense, the safest gun is a semiautomatic kept in just this state, loaded magazine in the gun, chamber empty, safety on. If there are children in the house, it is safer to have a loaded magazine handy, but not in the gun. In the case of the Beirut bombing the sentries did not have their magazines locked in their rifles, contrary to orders.
Wednesday, November 14th 2012 at 6:41AM
Steve Williams
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Please tell me; what does re-hashing the Vietnam War helps us dumb Black Americans to see our own way forward?
Under these circumstances don’t I have a legal right to call you all stupid and extremely ignorant?
Don’t you dummies see that I am right because none of you all responds to my comments? If at any time I am wrong I am sure you all would have jumped all over me. Am I being logical?
The only reason I call you all dummies is because you all know that I am right since you all can not say that I am wrong, but you all still continue to go down the wrong path. And, only an idiot would continue to go wrong when right is brought to them.
Wednesday, November 14th 2012 at 6:53AM
Harry Watley
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It's part of American history. Every bit as interesting as Jewish history.
Wednesday, November 14th 2012 at 7:02AM
Steve Williams
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http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/why-...
I lived through the Elias war with the "rules of engagement" and "no free fire zones" and "do not lock an load your weapons" and the halts to the bombings up north and the Ho Chi Minh Trail. It invited death for our side. We were the ones burdened by this crap while the V.C. and the NVA could not care less.
Wednesday, November 14th 2012 at 7:23AM
Steve Williams
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Stupid Steve,
Okay, you say it is American history. However, my question asks how this helps Black Americans to move forward in our own way. That is what I need an answer to. White Americans and Black Americans are two different people, am I right. White Americans have their own and Black Americans are just now coming into their own.
So, how does re-hashing the war help Black Americans move forward in our own way.
I think my question would be best answered my one of those dumb Black Americans who constantly want what White Americans have instead of wanting something out of life for themselves, like a country and sovereignty.
Wednesday, November 14th 2012 at 7:35AM
Harry Watley
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http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forums/show...
I think ROE were at best in most cases,"guidelines".It is perhaps not quite "field operations"but I was stationed on a large army airbase.Our perimeter was encircled by three rows on concentina wire,then a road,which was lined by pole mounted lights.Just behind the road were cement,two "story" bunkers,spaced about 300? feet apart.Every night each bunker was manned by two men each with his M-16 and an M-60 with plenty of ammo.every other bunker also had an M-79.One bunker was the command bunker which had 4 men including the officer of the guard,truck driver and two additional men.
The ROE as I recall was no one was to fire any weapons without permission of the OG.
I had been in country about 6 months and this particular night was assigned as driver on the command bunker.My main job was to drop off the men at each bunker with their weapons and ammo. Then at midnight to drive to each bunker and pass out C-rations.when I stopped at the bunker adjacent to our command bunker{left side} One of the guys who was a friend and I were making small talk.I noticed the other guy{he was on his second tour,and prior to becoming a gunner had been a grunt}was intently sitting behind his M-60 staring out into the darkness beyond the wire.
now I had been there 6 months and not had any incidents except one night a couple of mortar rounds.I said to my buddy"whats with Samperi?"
He said,"got me man,he keeps saying their gonna hit the wire tonight"We both smiled and I went back to the command bunker.
About 2 AM,I am on the top of our bunker trying to sleep laying flat on my ponco liner,with my other guard,when all of a sudden there is a long burst from an M-60.I instantly sit up........at the same time my other guard lays his m-16 across my belly using me for cover.......I push him off me while another long burst is shot off.Bear with me because this all happens in about 45 seconds........The officer of the guard is running out of our bunker directly under a light,while yelling at the gunner in the adjacent bunker to "cease fire,Cease fire".........at that instant I see a stream of GREEN tracers fired directly at the bunker next to ours.......the lieutenant is still yelling cease fire........I jump off the bunker and grab him while screaming that there are VC in the wire......get to cover. by now its all over.
soon they send out the captain in charge of operations and investigate.they find an AK-47 beyond the second row of concentina with blood on it.the first row of wire had been cut.Needless to say.......the guy with the hunch was right.
I guess my point is, that ROE are never black and white..........
By the way ...the guy who used me for a shield got an ear full........
Wednesday, November 14th 2012 at 7:41AM
Steve Williams
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Jake, I don't know about the fire orders, but I can understand the locked but not loaded part. If there is no imminent threat, it only takes a second to chamber a round. If you are under fire you obviously will have a round chambered and most likely the safety off as well. But when a bunch of guys are walking around with rounds chambered then you have the potential for accidental discharge, friendly fire. I wasn't there and don't know anyone who was, so I can't say whether the rule was right or wrong. I guess that's what commanding officers are for.
Wednesday, November 14th 2012 at 1:12PM
Steve Williams
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Jake...we called it a 3 step load. Cock it and fire.
Wednesday, November 14th 2012 at 1:44PM
Earl Brown
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@STEVE, WENT TO THE SITE...I wonder why this has not hit the media...maybe it will with this attention of these generals and calling them to endless hearings...Nam was child''s play to Afgan...I remember an afgan war lord saying if they had not been fighting th russians they would be fighting against each other.(smile)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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"I" am sure taht this is off topic...but...when one checks with their friends who were in Nam please check how they conclude...
how can one compare not being able to defend ones own self with someone going into a village and killing innocent noncombatants...that actually ended up with something called 'fracking'...this is when our militray personal believe an officer was giving or going to give an order that violated thei rpersonal code of honor... they killed their own officer...
not too much was done when a leader of a group would shoot their own if they refused to fight or just because they felt the group would be safer if they just shot the person in the leg or arm so they could be sent out of th eawar zone...
when one checks with their friends who were in Nam, please asked them what did they do when they returned to the states say and say it was teh forth of july or they heard a loud noise.??? (smile)
(again I am sure I am off topic)...
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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THIS IS WAY I LOVE DILOGUE...FROM CALLING ME A LIE ON HISTORY, WE HAVE NOW GOTTEN TO LEARN THE TURTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH...
BUT, FROM ME ON A PERSONAL LEVER, WE ARE COMING TO LEARN HOW AND WHY THE VIETNAM WAR WAS ENDED BY THE YOUTH TAKING IT UPON THEMSELVES TO STOP OUR GOVERNMENT FROMLYING TO US ON MATTERS TAHT WEH NOW ARE DISCUSSING RIGHT NOW...
AND, DIOLGUES LIKE THIS CAN VERY WELL HELP US TO STOP FUTURE WARS BEFORE THEY REACH THE STAGES OF ACTUAL W-A-R-S...
THIS IS WHY WE JUST REELECTED OUR PRESIDNET IN MAY WAYS...HE IS FOR DIOALOGUE AND OT FOR DROPING NNUCLEAR WEAPONS ON INNOCEN PEOPLES IN ANY GIVEN NATION. (SMILE)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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