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I saw pictures today of two men who looked pretty much alike. I tried to picture them each with a White Hat and a Black Hat. Cowboy hats, like G.W. Bush might wear. Barack Hussein Obama with a White Hat and Osama bin Laden with a Black Hat. Then Osama bin Laden with a White Hat and Barack Hussein Obama with a Black Hat. I didn't try to picture G. W. Bush's Hat at all.
Posted By: Steve Williams
Monday, May 2nd 2011 at 3:09PM
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Brother Steve,
I can't think of any reason for you not to picture former President George W.'s hat! Why so sore with him still? Ha!
Monday, May 2nd 2011 at 7:18PM
Jen Fad
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Hi Irma, I have missed you.
I've been off studying how the myth of Christianity started. Ever since Constantine it has been perpetuated as a tool of the State, and here we are still believing it almost 1700 years later.
This news shocked me just about as much as 911 itself. The shock (and dismay) are that we can hold it up as some kind of glory. I just wonder how long it will be, if ever, that we'll take our sins on ourselves instead of putting them on a scapegoat.
Monday, May 2nd 2011 at 7:29PM
Steve Williams
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Hi Sister Jen,
Well we all know about Bush, but I found out a little more about him today when I read about his congratulations to our President. Then I started wondering if I'd gone back far enough. Where did America go wrong. Or is our whole history a myth?
Monday, May 2nd 2011 at 7:38PM
Steve Williams
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glad to see you back,
ok a myth
you got a green hat on now
Monday, May 2nd 2011 at 8:58PM
powell robert
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Robert,
I've not forgotten our other study, just been a bit slow, currently still on Surah 3.
I have recently read three very interesting books about myth:
1. The Gnostic Gospels by Elaine Pagels
2. The Pagan Christ by Tom Harpur
3. Who Wrote the New Testament? by Burton L. Mack
By myth, I understand two distinct meanings. There is myth as symbol, metaphor, allegory, etc. Then there is myth as evil masquerading as good. It appears the former case is what generated Christianity, and the latter case what corrupted it.
The interesting thing is that the early Christians took the metaphors and allegories for what the were, as a way to attempt to express the inexpressible. They saw Christ as a symbol representing God incarnate in each of us. God breathed into Adam and he became a living being.
The Church later, very cleverly, created the myth that God incarnate was in only one person, and made up the story that this was all unadulterated history.
Does the Muslim understand God to be incarnate in the believer, in any sense?
Tuesday, May 3rd 2011 at 9:41AM
Steve Williams
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Always a warming welcome to hear from you Steve..
I've been missing you.
"With or without a hats of color they remain same men within --hats on or off."
{I don't mind hats, Smiles}
Tuesday, May 3rd 2011 at 7:18PM
MIISRAEL Bride
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Clark, thanks for that on Bush's statement, I had missed that. On the straw man, why did they bury him at sea? But they say they didn't do that until they verified his identity, DNA included. And where did they get the DNA to match against the body? And they have pictures, and as of yesterday, they were mulling over whether they should release one. But mainly I have to question the headline yesterday (Philadelphia Inquirer) "the world is a safer place". These are determined people with a cause. The cause is us. But we won't do the right thing by the other nations, so they will continue to fight, even more determined now. I wonder is it possible I will wake up some morning and the news will be the use of an atomic weapon. It is time we learned to make peace.
Wednesday, May 4th 2011 at 10:10AM
Steve Williams
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Jake, it's interesting too that in Egyptian lore there was an Iusu (or Iusa or Iu-em-hetep) which means "the coming divine Son who heals or saves." And Iusu was a personal epithet of Horus. And of course you know that in the 1611 bible it's spelled Iesus.
Wednesday, May 4th 2011 at 10:45AM
Steve Williams
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Irma, I don't know if stress is the right word. But man's inhumanity to man is a source of sadness, and I wonder if we'll ever learn the meaning of "thou shalt not kill". When I saw the two pictures of these men side by side, it looked to me like they could be brothers. Or maybe it was just my imagination.
About Moses there are many interesting stories besides what we find in the bible. And there is also the question of when the biblical figure was first put into writing. It may have been as late as the second century BCE,
Wednesday, May 4th 2011 at 11:09AM
Steve Williams
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Miisrael, I've missed you too. I hope to be around more now. You may remember me telling you about a personal challenge I was facing, and the sale of my house has been time consuming. We now have a contract to close by 7/15. But I'm still not sure what my best course is after that happens.
Wednesday, May 4th 2011 at 11:17AM
Steve Williams
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No, the Believer does NOT see CREATOR incarnate in creation.........................
Creator of Adaam(as) is beyond creation.
Adaam(as) was created of the mud, dirt, stagnant water.
Wednesday, May 4th 2011 at 10:01PM
powell robert
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I thought that would be the correct answer. and perhaps one of the defining characteristics of Islam. Or maybe THE defining characteristic? I have a lot of study to do though.
Thursday, May 5th 2011 at 7:34AM
Steve Williams
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Allaah is ArRahmaan, THE MOST MERCIFUL
Allaah's Descriptions are exclusive------ For instance,
Allaah said in
Sûrat Al-Isrâ’
(The Journey by Night) XVII
105. We have sent it down AlQur’âan with truth. We have sent you Mohamed Çááå Úáíå æ Óáã as nothing but a bearer of glad tidings of Paradise for those who follow the Message of Monotheism, and a warner of Hell-fire for those who refuse to follow your Message of Monotheism.
106. AlQur’âan which We have divided into parts, in order that you might recite it to men at intervals. And We have revealed it by stages.
107. Mohamed "Believe in it or do not believe in it. Those who were given knowledge before it, the Jews and the Christians like ‘Abdullâh bin Salâm and Salmân Al-Farisî, when it is recited to them, fall down on their faces in humble prostration."
108. And they say: "Glory be to our Lord! Truly, the Promise of our Lord must be fulfilled."
109. And they fall down on their faces weeping and it increases their humility.
110. Mohamed Õáì Çááå Úáíå æ Óáã): "Invoke Allâah or invoke ArRahmaan, by whatever name you invoke Him, for to Him belong the Best Descriptions. And offer your Salât (prayer) neither aloud nor in a low voice, but follow a way between.
111. And say: "All the praises and thanks be to Allâah, Who has not begotten a son or offspring, and Who has no partner in His Dominion, nor is He low to have a Walî (helper, protector or supporter). And magnify Him with all magnificence, [Allâahu-Akbar (Allâah is the Most Great)]."
The Believer can be named abdulRahmaan, (servant of The Most Merciful, Gracious) but ArRahmaan is exclusive.
Thursday, May 5th 2011 at 8:17AM
powell robert
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Thank you Robert. If I may ask further, how does abdulRahmaan fight evil men and women? And how does he serve to bring justice in the here and now, or must he wait for the final judgment?
Thursday, May 5th 2011 at 9:31AM
Steve Williams
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Obviously Evil and Good are Relative.
One day the White Hat of CIA has usamaBinLaden
Then the next the CIA put a Black Hat on Him.
one day Our President Baraka Hussein Obama has a blackHat and then he has a whiteHat---given by johnMcCain, hillaryClinton or donaldTrump
Good is very different than Evil
Men and Women should STAND for something with some Firmness to it.
Men and Women have to have some Truth--
My thoughts are that AbdulRahmaan must submit to Belief/Truth,
AbdulRahmaan then Must Learn the Discipline and Practice the Discipline of His Belief/Truth
If one has to use a Prayer or a Stick to Clean Evil-----or a Prayer Stick like Musa had, justice can be served in His/Her Life or at Judgement----that is part of the Truth that the Believer Submits to................
to me, it seems simple,
I am Monotheistic
so Monotheism has a long history and Scholarship; so I know that it evolves, like time and everything else AlMaleek, AlHaqq, AlAly, ArRahiim, AbBari, AlHayuAlQayyum has Created..................
Thursday, May 5th 2011 at 6:06PM
powell robert
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I have been coming to the same conclusion. Or to put is this way, it is for us to practice virtue in all ways, and the final outcome is in the hands of the Creator.
Thanks everyone, and sorry for popping in and out like this - I've been doing some extensive studies, right now some very interesting reading of Philo of Alexandria.
Sunday, May 15th 2011 at 2:08PM
Steve Williams
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Hi Irma!
Philo was from a well-to do Jewish family, a citizen of Alexandria. He is thought to have been born around 20 BCE, based on the fact that writing about his participation in an embassy to the Emperor Caligula in 39-40 CE, he refers to himself as an "old man", which he defines as older than 61. The embassy was an appeal to Caligula about the persecution of the Jews at that time. So he is an exact contemporary of Jesus, John the Baptist, and Paul (whose letters are generally dated in the 50s). But he has nothing to say about any of these three. However, in writing about the Jewish persecutions of the time it's significant that it was during this time that Jesus is said to have been crucified.
He was well educated in both Jewish and Hellenistic thought, as Alexandria was then both the center of Hellenic culture, as well as the chief center of the Jewish diaspora. His work is published in ten volumes in the Loeb Classical Library, which are printed with the Greek text on facing pages to an English translation. So my Greek being long neglected, I can read the translation but still refer to the Greek, and so my Greek is coming back to me.
Most of his texts (that have survived of course) are allegorical interpretations from the books of Moses. It's interesting that all his references to these scriptures are to the Greek, so-called "translation", i.e. the Septuagint. There is reason to believe that it was the Greek version of the books of Moses that were the first to be written, and were later translated into Hebrew, rather than the other way around, as is almost universally accepted without question. But why would such an educated Jewish man not know Hebrew, and refer to the original Hebrew, if in fact it then existed? But instead, his philosophical arguments are often dependent on the meanings of specific Greek words.
The first treatise in the series is "On the Account of the World's Creation Given by Moses". Here is a man writing 2000 years ago, without the benefit of knowledge of evolution or other modern science, and he tells us that the creation of the world in six days is not to be taken literally, and in fact it is impious to believe so! Instead, he gives an allegorical interpretation (based on numerous Platonic and Stoic ideas) of the spiritual meaning of the number of each day, and how that number relates to what was created on each day. And of course deals at length with the meaning of the seventh day.
The second treatise is "Allegorical Interpretation of Genesis II, III". In this, he takes the four rivers flowing from Eden as symbols of the four cardinal virtues (of classic philosophical thought): Prudence, Courage, Self-Mastery, and Justice. Prudence and Courage are the most easily exercised, while Self-Mastery is the most difficult. Justice follows successively from the exercise of the first three.
Courage has to do with things to be endured, and things not to be endured. I can relate this to the bin Laden affair as in one sense the actions of powerful men, exercised without virtue, are things to be endured, while in another sense they are not to be endured. Meaning that we have in our power the ability to improve our own lives, to dialog with and educate each other, and to have the courage to attempt change in the world. But to the extent that beyond our power others fail to exercise virtue, we must simply endure.
It is interesting, in reading Philo, I experience a sense of peace I've not known in a long time.
Monday, May 16th 2011 at 11:11AM
Steve Williams
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@Steve, lets leave out the world being a safer place...how safe is N.Y. (and maybe a few states) going to be once our president goes to ground zero tomorrow and read/ bring up those nonAmerican sounding names of those who died at ground zero and bring back up the subject of building that mall with a Mosque in it, because a Mosque was in the twin towers when it went down???
You know like touching on our law of the land taht says things like FREEDOMOF RELIGION...lol (smile)
WE ARE DEALING WITH MANKING'S BEHAVIOR THEREFORE "I" NEVER STRESS OVER THINGS LIKE THIS NOT IN AMERICA. (SMILE)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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@Steve, I saw a documentary last night on the History International channel named "Kings from Babylon to Bagdad...and what was so interesting about this(tracing by tangable archology finds )was how the first Mesopolamian King, Sargon the Great in 3,500 BC's life began the exact same way as the story of Moses...go figure as this is not hear say but proven. lol (smile)
And, much like you "I" so love learning about different religions with an open mind as it gets pass the bull that causes so much stress via abuse of said religions. (smile)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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@ STEVE, ACTUALY FROM THE OUT POURING OF DEMANDS FOR LOVE AND RESPECT FOR O.B.L. AFTER DEATH...COULD WE HAVE BEEN TOTALLY WRONG ABOUT THIS MAN BEING A TERRORIST??!!? (N...U...P!!!)
OR TAHT OLD SOCIAL NORM ABOUT DON'T SAY ANYTHING BAD ABOUT THE DEAD SO STICK TO SAYING NEGATIVE THINGS ABOUT THE LIVING AS OUR PRESIDENT AND OUR MILITARY AFTER ALL HE IS THE COMANDER IN CHIEF...(NUP)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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@Steve, while you are at it you just might want to look up at UC Berkeley for some of his Black BUSH, TRUMP backers ABOUT the foundation of the Bush family that is doing the study to find out if blacks are human or not...I am sure they will love learning about this over their discussions about how unqualified our president is as this may have a lot to do with the right-wingers having us out there helping them so faitfully.lol (smile)
As the First lady's minor IN COLLEGE was in our bia history SI I am sure she knows all about this as does our president...
EDUCATE!!!EDUCATE!!!EDUCATE!!! (SMILE)
good night and so good to see ya...
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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@Steve, you may just enjoy Rich'sblog, "How did Obama succeed where Bush failed". lol (smile)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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(Hi Steve great to see you )...
as fo rme, I believe Bin Laden wore the 'white hat of purity when he first began his cause in trying to bring public attention to how our government allowing Israel to have on top of nuclear powers other weapons like jets, better and up to date killing machines therefore putting his nation in more jepardy...
but many times money, power and public recognition can cause corruption/ dictators, danger too far too many innocent babies still in their mother's womb as well as children growing up 'without fathers ' as well as mothers or any family members left at all,ect.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (NUP big time)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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Steve, not fair of you to tempt us with what you are learning and not share i twith us. (smile)
...and here is another reason "I" am so interesting in dialogue as it always offers a balance to so much of the conclusions of right/ wrong. example,
We bury our own at sea from naval ships, don't we? ...anyone actually listen to any of the process' taken in burying Bin Laden at sea and why this was done in teh first place much as the decision was made not to drop a bomb on him nor invade a whole nation to get this one man???? ...
and to bury him not according to Christian democratic standards as much as our belief in freedom of religion!?!? (nup/ smile)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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@steve may "I" try to answer you question about Islam by way of NDB...
"NO ONE KNOWS EVERYTHING SO NEVER STOP TRYING TO LEARN"(and as we all know many religions are against asking questions seeking answers, because they have all of the questions period so just raise you faith levers)
BUDDHISM IS ABOUT BLANCE AND BELIEVEING ONES POWERS AS A HUMAN BEING HAS NO LIMITS (IN BRAIN POWERS)AS DOES SIN, SINNERS, ECT.
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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