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WILL GEORGE ZIMMERMAN BE CONVICTED? U. C. L. A. LAW PROFESSOR THINKS IT WILL BE A TOUGH CASE TO PROVE (2072 hits)

by Adam Winkler, HUFFINGTON POST, April 11, 2012 -- The news that Florida prosecutors are bringing charges against George Zimmerman for the death of Trayvon Martin raises two questions: Will Zimmerman be convicted? And what role will Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law play in the case?

Before considering either of these two questions, however, one must recognize that we don't have all the relevant facts yet.

Yet one thing is clear: prosecutors are not going to have an easy time convicting Zimmerman. There are too many conflicting accounts of what occurred that night, which creates the possibility of the jury finding reasonable doubt.

What no one apparently disputes is that Zimmerman, an active neighborhood watch volunteer, saw Martin out on the street of the residential community; called 9-1-1 to report a suspicious person; followed Martin despite being told that wasn't necessary by the 9-1-1 dispatch; and eventually shot Martin at close range.

Beyond that, however, there is much uncertainty. If Zimmerman's story is to be believed -- and, frankly, I am as yet unconvinced -- he gave up the pursuit of Martin and was returning to his car when Martin attacked him. Zimmerman claims that Martin then began banging Zimmerman's head against the concrete and threatened to kill him. If that's right, then Zimmerman will have valid defense under Florida law for using deadly force.

That's not, however, due to the Stand Your Ground Law. In any state in the nation, a person reasonably fearing imminent death or substantial bodily injury is entitled to fight back if no escape is possible. If Zimmerman was being prevented from escaping by Martin's sitting on him, then the expansion of self-defense under Stand Your Ground is irrelevant.

What if Zimmerman's story isn't credible? Even then, a conviction is going to be hard to obtain. That's because there are apparently conflicting accounts of witnesses about who was on top in the struggle. That one fact may be enough for Zimmerman. The conflicting accounts make it more likely that a jury will find that prosecutors haven't proven their case beyond a reasonable doubt. Which eyewitness accounts are believed may depend on the recording of cries of help -- and on whether the judge allowed experts to testify about whose voice, Martin or Zimmerman's, is heard screaming.

The Stand Your Ground law won't likely offer Zimmerman much of a defense in this case, but nevertheless may still be relevant. In particular, the law offers Zimmerman the possibility of avoiding a trial. The real impact of Stand Your Ground laws is not in their expansion of the right of self-defense to the public streets -- many states, including my own liberal state of California, have allowed people to stand their ground for decades. The innovation of Stand Your Ground laws is to establish procedures to reduce the likelihood that a person who kills in self-defense ever has to stand trial.

Traditionally, one claiming self-defense would have the opportunity to raise that defense at trial before a jury. In Florida, however, the Stand Your Ground law gives defendants like Zimmerman the right to a pre-trial hearing to challenge his indictment. At this special pre-trial hearing, which will occur long before any jury trial, Zimmerman will have the opportunity to present evidence to a judge showing he acted in self-defense. If he can show that he was acting in self-defense by a "preponderance of the evidence" -- legalese for "it's more likely than not" -- then the charges against him will be dropped and he'll never face a jury. That burden of proof is not very demanding and requires a showing far less demanding than the "beyond a reasonable doubt" test used in criminal trials ordinarily.

It may well be that, even here, the Stand Your Ground law won't play a big part in the outcome of this case. Criminal defense lawyers in Florida say judges tend not to dismiss homicide charges where the facts are genuinely in dispute. Certainly, the facts in this case are in dispute. One also imagines that most judges would rather not be in the center of the media storm that would almost certainly ensue if Zimmerman is allowed to go free before a trial. Most judges, one can safely assume, would rather have the guilt or innocence of Zimmerman decided by a jury.

So even though many people in America are certain that Zimmerman is guilty, obtaining a criminal conviction in this case is going to be a real challenge for the prosecution. And Florida's Stand Your Ground law may not, in the end, have much of an influence on whether they are successful.
Posted By: Richard Kigel
Thursday, April 12th 2012 at 9:31AM
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With so much uncertainty with this case, under the circumstances the jury pool
is going to be difficult to fine. Can there be a fair trial? For Mr. Zimmerman...
Thursday, April 12th 2012 at 6:56PM
Rori Nelson
It is a custom in some cultures to place coins on the eyelids of the dead, practiced by the Jews, Romans, Greeks, and Africans. Coins are placed on the eyes of the dead to keep them closed. However, coins were also sometimes placed in the hands as the deceased person's contribution to the community of the ancestors-or perhaps, as a token for admittance to the spirit world. For the same purpose coins are also placed on or around the grave site. These traditions may not be practiced by every African American family but many of them were and still are believed to this day.
Thursday, April 12th 2012 at 7:12PM
Helen Lofton
Good point Rori...

But there are some clear signs. The prosecutor has a reputation for toughness--she knows what she is doing. I do not think she would be bringing charges if she was not fully confident that she could make them stick.

Don't foget--the prosecutor has access to all the information relevent to the case that the public does not have. Clearly, she is basing her case on what evidence she knows and can prove.

I think he will be convicted.



Thursday, April 12th 2012 at 8:06PM
Richard Kigel
@ Rori

I agree totally. I also want to add that although I was relieved to hear that someone had finally arrested Zimmerman, I remain doubtful that he will be convicted beyond a reasonable doubt because as I said in the beginning... the moment race is brought in... people on both sides get 'touchy'. It becomes an us vs them. At best, Zimmerman will not be allowed to carry a concealed weapon and will have to pay a fine. I hope that folk don't riot when the verdict comes once this case goes to trial.

@ Brother Rich,

I suppose the prosecutor had enough evidence to formally charge Zimmerman with 2nd murder rather than 1st degree. The way things are going... if they weren't able to get him on 1st degree... he would walk. And you're right, the prosecutor is smart. At best, 2nd degree murder is probably duable. How much time would he spend in prison for that?


Thursday, April 12th 2012 at 9:16PM
Jen Fad
So Jen...that was some astute legal analysis....planning on a second career as an attorney???

Thursday, April 12th 2012 at 10:15PM
Richard Kigel
I can't see how Mr Zimmerman gets a fair trial. The whole world know who
Trayvon Martin is. I wouldn't want to be the judge in this case.
Thursday, April 12th 2012 at 10:52PM
Kenya Stevenson
Kenya--don't forget...the legal system has tackled lots of highly controversial cases successfully.

The issue for the jury pool isn't whether or not they have heard of the case--they will be asked whether or not they can keep an open mind as they listen to the evidence as presented.

And don't forget--everything we think we know from the media is not evidence. We have to wait for the trial for that. Just like the jury.

Thursday, April 12th 2012 at 10:55PM
Richard Kigel
Let us not forget that Zimmerman represents the mentality of a person taking courses and training to become part of the law enforcement. He should be made to listen to the voice of the person calling for help and probably begging not to be shot. I think that a mother can recognize and knows the sound of her child s voice.
Friday, April 13th 2012 at 2:24AM
Helen Lofton
And Helen, independent professional voice analysis experts have determinined that the voice calling for help was Trayvon's. That is the kind of definitive evidence we will see coming out at the trial.


Friday, April 13th 2012 at 11:48AM
Richard Kigel
I believe if the proscutor knows her stuff, she will get a conviction. I believe that she does. The defense is going to use insanity or fear which I don't think will stand up. If the jurors can keep an open mind, it will not be beyond comprehension that the stand your ground law did not apply to Zimmerman. She is a smart lady. I have faith.
Friday, April 13th 2012 at 1:24PM
Thomasena Martin-Johnson
Right, Thomasena!

We already know from the formal charges filed by the prosecutor that she does not buy Zimmerman's story. She is taking the assumptions offered by Trayvon Martin's family--that HE was the one pursued without just cause. She actually used the word "profiled" to describe Zimmerman's actions.

I think she will present a tough argument to contradict.


Friday, April 13th 2012 at 3:30PM
Richard Kigel
Hello to all,

Let me start off my saying this indiscrimating killing of Mr. Trayvon is not the first, am I right. Therefore, the concern I have as Black America's first genuine prophet is putting a permanent stop to these senseless racial tragadies rather than being so concern whether Mr. Zimmerman will be convicted. Am I making any sense?
In the late '50s Emmit Till was such a victim of racial discrimanation, am I right.

Well, our only permanent solution is the same as was the solution that came to the childern of Israel.
Saturday, April 14th 2012 at 3:22AM
Harry Watley
@ Brother Rich,

I was just flexing my legal muscles... Back in the day, I'd thought about going to law school after nursing school. I believe I would have made a darn good attorney.


Sunday, April 15th 2012 at 3:50PM
Jen Fad
Jen: wow!!! impressive!!! I believe you could have been a great lawyer. They would probably give you your own TV show...Law n Order JF style!!!


Monday, April 16th 2012 at 1:52PM
Richard Kigel
That is nuts.

He admitted it. He had it in his possession when they came on the scene.


Monday, April 16th 2012 at 10:49PM
Richard Kigel
Right! I wonder what is going on! Do you think they all became Buddhists???
Monday, April 23rd 2012 at 9:25AM
Richard Kigel
Now rich, here is th eicing on the cake...Geraldo had Dr. West and Smiley on his program to say how they were not 'angry' with him for "it seeming like he was blaming the victim for the crime"...

then yesterday they had their constitutional judge Neapalino on to go against GZ, by saying one can not start the fight and claim his life was in jeparty...can you say they are trying to get outof this mess they put themselves in?!?...Not to mention they now will be forced to try and act like they want Romney to become president. (otfl) (smile)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
"I" am so glad that things have now calmed down a lot. And, I am even mor happy that the trial will not be for a long time. give everyone time to get their heads back on straight. (smile)

This may have nothing to dowith it, but it seem even Congress are making an effort to work with each other at long last...
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
LOL,Rich...

AND, HERE IS ANOTHE GREAT PUZZLE, WHY DID THEY NOT ALLOW THE SHERIFF TO RESIGN?????????????!!!!!!!
But, when we go to what Thomasena says about the prosorutor, his not being able to get himself out of the direct path of all that is wrong 'lerally' in the case as for as even amature detectives know the police department should have done in documations of any and all serious crimes evey shop lifting to a speeding ticket was not done, or if done not done as in treating it like a human life had been teken, by accident or on purpos!

Anyone see that bleeding head picture shot and willing to say tis is zimmerman's head needs to get 20 years fro purgery on the witness stand...more bleeding that defiy the laws of physic, plus his skin is dark!!!!!!!!!!! (nup)


Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
GZ, also said, "He is running"!...

And, this is why I believe this is a case that was 'offically' closed by Judge Zimmermann and the state's attorney general...when did the deep south ever go out of their way to help a Latino like this?!? What in the world would the other Republican governors say about this kind of anti-right winged behaviors?!?

Wasn't the last election about how the blacks and Lations hated each other?!? These people having failed in blaming this on our president don't have a prayer!!! And, god knows the last thing tis political party needed was to have Mrs. Romney as the party's mother figure out there promoting more guns...Palin is a given for this kind of screwed up thinking/ bad behavor, but Mrs. Romney, just don't fit that profile she has stepped into as it is she taht her husband can't make a move without checking with her....

And, by the way has Palin's husband found employment yet?LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
How soon, we forget taht our constutition says we have a right to life...if Zimmerman 'walks' it will only be right into federal court for violating TM's Constitutional right to live.

One canonly get first degree murder if it is by the way they had planned to do on the 10...this proscutor has more on her pate then GZ...much, much, much more on her plate like the reason for any of this to have ended up as it did in the first place and why judge Z and the state attorney two sense they now deny they traveled all tose miles not to put any of it in to this mix...and never forget the feds and national naacp attornys are on tis case hot and heavy as well so lets not be so short sighted and take in all of th eresources working on this case...that is if you don't believe these hieavy hitters come in on every local arrest for a local shooting...WAKE UP... (SMILE)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
@Helen, not to worry about the voice as NASA will put an end to that question when the time comes.
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
i WISH SOMEONE HAD POSTED THE ARIAL SHOT OF THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD THAT L O'D showed...zimmeerman is no different than any other human and can not see around corners...and, even worst he could not have been attacked at his truck and unless Trayvon's body was moved that is...because once again it was not in a straight line or even anyplace near his truck!!! oops around corners, through trees and buildings plus the gate where is truck was suppose to be at.

this would have gone down very well at the Nra's convention today would it not if it had not backed fired so well???

If my instinct and common sense is correct in the election year the NRA and Mrs. Romney are going to be the greatest loosers in this...and for two reasons...She should have never lowered her self as a mother at taht convention when 17 youths have been killed by guns since the death of Trayvon Martin...AND, HOW ABOUT THAT IMAGE OF THE MALE BEING THE HEAD OF THE HOUSE HOLD...WOMEN CAN HAVE GUNS BUT NOT HEALTH CARE AND EQUAL PAY FOR EQUAL WORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MALES NO SENSE TO ME AT ALL...THEY DON'T REALLY BELIEVE THE PRES IS NOT GOING TO GO AFTER THEIR HOUSE HOLD STAFF...........WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE SINCE THERE IS STILL A CHANCE TO HAVE A CONVENTION AND VOTE IN SANTORUM???????????????????????????? (NUP / SMILE)

IT MAY SHOCK YOU, BUT THESE PEOPLE MEAN IT WHEN THEY SAY THIS IS A CHRISTIAN NATION...AND ROMNEY SURE DON'T HAVE A NONWHITE BLOC BACKING HIM IN ANY WAY NOR FEMALES...WAKE UP...
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
(long white hair like Bufflo Bill's hair was)...(smile)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
Rich, "I" could not believe my own ears yesterday while watching Christ Wallace in an interview with that high powered lawyer from (I believe Tx. with the long hair) and, out of this high powered lawyers mouth came, "THEY WILL HAVE TO FIRST PROVE TAHT ZIMMERMAN HAD A GUN"!...

TRIAL OR POLITICAL PARTY LINES TO FARTHER PROTECT THE nra SEEM TO BE IN OUR FUTURE ON THIS CASE! BUT, "I" CHANT (PRAY) BEFORE THIS IS ALL OER WE WILL BE ABLE TO LOOK AT A LIFE AS PRICELESS.(S-M-I-L-E)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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