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Matthew 2:13-15 13 And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him. 14 When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt: 15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son. Hosea 11:1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.
Posted By: Steve Williams
Tuesday, January 1st 2013 at 8:57PM
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Hey Steve,
I did a search on 'Israel' and 'Egypt' on www.biblegateway.com and found a really interesting scripture that jumped out at me! ...
Genesis 47:27 Good News Translation (GNT) Jacob's Last Request
27 The Israelites lived in Egypt in the region of Goshen, where they became rich and had many children.
Genesis 47:27 (KJV) And Israel dwelt in the land of Egypt, in the country of Goshen; and they had possessions therein, and grew, and multiplied exceedingly.
Genesis 47:27-28 Message Translation (MSG)
And so Israel settled down in Egypt in the region of Goshen. They acquired property and flourished. They became a large company of people. Jacob lived in Egypt for seventeen years. In all, he lived 147 years.
Other Translations --- http://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Genes...
Although I knew God changed the name of Jacob to Israel (one who strives with God in one translation and another translation says it means God's chosen), I completely forgot that he and his sons eventually relocated to Egypt during the great famine and was reconnected with his long lost youngest son Joseph (called the Dreamer)...
Jacob/Israel's children's children bore children in Egypt as well as Joseph had a wife in Egypt who also born him sons Manassah and Ephraim--- ( I think???) Then the record showed that there was a Pharoah (BKing's ancestors) who didn't know or honor Joseph and therefore enslaved the people. Anyway... this enslavement didn't stop the Israelites from having babies not too, unsimilar from how the African slave had babies while being enslaved in America.
Anyway... I remember now that Moses was born in Egypt. However, when Moses (the Deliverer) came back to Egypt to free God's people, the record states all left Egypt.
I'm waiting to see what else the Hebrew lexicon can bring up on Israel.
Let me know what you think.
Tuesday, January 1st 2013 at 11:45PM
Jen Fad
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Jen, and Abram went down to Egypt too.
Wednesday, January 2nd 2013 at 12:15AM
Steve Williams
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Hello to all,
What Ms. Jen posted has nothing to do with the inquiry of this blog. Jen post deals with the timing and era of Moses.
This blog deals with God guiding Joseph and Mary to escape the evil plan that Herod had in mind for Jesus. And, so God told them to go to Egypt which was long after Moses and for Joseph, Mary and Jesus to stay there until God tells them it is okay to leave Egypt and come to Nazareth in Galilee.
Entirely two different things not related to each other.
Wednesday, January 2nd 2013 at 5:10AM
Harry Watley
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@ Steve,
This is also true.
Wednesday, January 2nd 2013 at 5:27AM
Jen Fad
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@ Steve,
Here is what I found regards Hosea in the commentary ...
Hosea 11:1–11 In language even more tender than the story of the prodigal son (Luke 15:11–32), God, the loving parent, proclaims His compassion for Israel. In spite of rebellion, God’s election cannot be defeated. Beyond judgment there is hope.
Also...
Hosea 11:1
11:1 loved. The language of love is used to describe both the father-son relationship and the covenantal relationship between a suzerain and vassal in ancient Near-Eastern treaties (Deut. 6:5; 7:8, 13; 10:15; 23:5).
out of Egypt I called my son. Here and in v. 4 reference is made to God’s deliverance of Israel from slavery in Egypt (Ex. 4:22). Jesus, as the true Israel, was also brought out of Egypt in accordance with this prophecy (Matt. 2:15).
Resources » Reformation Study Bible » Hos 11:1
Hos 11:1
http://www.biblegateway.com/resources/refo...
Also note....
Israel = "God prevails"
1) the second name for Jacob given to him by God after his wrestling with the angel at Peniel
2) the name of the descendants and the nation of the descendants of Jacob
a) the name of the nation until the death of Solomon and the split
b) the name used and given to the northern kingdom consisting of the 10 tribes under Jeroboam; the southern kingdom was known as Judah
c) the name of the nation after the return from exile
http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/tran...
Wednesday, January 2nd 2013 at 6:21AM
Jen Fad
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I hope that you all understand that the Jewish people were not the only people that God had visited. God also visited the Arabian people and God has now visited Black Americans who are the descendents of plantation slaves.
Ms. Jen why don't you ascribe to your own experience and scriptures of the people you are? You are not a Jewish woman. You and Siebra are two silly Black American woman because Siebra thinks she is an Arabian woman. You all don't really know who you are and you should get to learn who you are and how you got here.
You must come out of the House of Israel because you are not a Jewish woman am I right.
Wednesday, January 2nd 2013 at 7:25AM
Harry Watley
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Jen,
Thanks for the research. These verses are surely worth meditating on. Here is another one concerning Israel, one of my true favorites, and I have Harry to thank for long ago leading me back to.
Deuteronomy 32:10
He found him in a desert land, and in the waste howling wilderness; he led him about, he instructed him, he kept him as the apple of his eye.
Jen, my basic interpretation of the Bible is allegorical. This approach is supported by all these verses. I take this one from Deuteronomy in a very personal sense, as God cares for me, in the same way he cared for Jacob. God finds us in the wilderness, leads us about and instructs us. And more, he always has his eye on us.
Your commentary on Hosea says "In language even more tender than the story of the prodigal son". How touching the words are "When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt. When we submit to God as his children, he loves us and brings us into the promised land. But understand, to me, it is metaphor, not history.
Ave you ever wondered Jen what Jesus learned when he was in Egypt? I have, and I think it was something of great value. The Bible uses Egypt as the oppressor. But Egypt was a great civilization, full of riches. Egypt was in fact a subject of oppression herself. She was invaded first by the Persians, then the Macedonians, then ruled by the Ptolemies, then conquered and ruled by Rome. The Great Library at Alexandria was burned, and countless treasures lost. Her culture and here land were swallowed up. Asclepius tells what it was to be an Egyptian after this time.
Wednesday, January 2nd 2013 at 11:52AM
Steve Williams
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Harry,
Your interpretation of Jesus going down to Egypt is not an interpretation at all. All you have done is to repeat the passage using different words. You take it as a simple historical narrative, but it is much more than that. It has a mystical meaning. Think about it.
Wednesday, January 2nd 2013 at 12:00PM
Steve Williams
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Interesting... Blog.... the Old Testament....
Wednesday, January 2nd 2013 at 12:01PM
Cynthia Merrill Artis
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And it's interesting Cynthia, that because of the Protestant Bible, there is the so-called inter-testamental period. But what has been excluded from the Protestant Bible, the apocrypha, includes Maccabees, which covers the period when the Ptolemies and Seleucids were fighting over Judea, caught in the middle as always, between Egypt in the south, and Syria and Mesopotamia in the north.
Wednesday, January 2nd 2013 at 12:15PM
Steve Williams
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yes I've read the Maccabees.... I was always warned "to stay away from these scriptures" ... because of periods of conflicts.... So many different bibles, teachings and beliefs....
Wednesday, January 2nd 2013 at 12:26PM
Cynthia Merrill Artis
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Wonderful Steve how eye-opening this is to the spiritual meaning and gift of Jesus. Passages like these are like beautiful treasures to the inner-man/woman.
Worth meaingul meditation .
Wednesday, January 2nd 2013 at 1:23PM
MIISRAEL Bride
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Indeed they are Miisrael. Abram, Joseph, Jacob and Jesus all found safe haven in Egypt. So how is it possible to think of Egypt as evil? We need to consider all the Bible teachings together. That's why I approach the Bible as allegory. It may contain historical fact or it may not. To me it doesn't matter because the meaning is on the spiritual plane, not the historical.
Wednesday, January 2nd 2013 at 1:44PM
Steve Williams
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Allegory is a device in which characters or events represent or symbolize ideas and concepts. Allegory has been used widely throughout the history of art, and in all forms of artwork. A reason for this is that allegory has an immense power of illustrating complex ideas and concepts in a digestible, concrete way. In allegory a message is communicated by means of symbolic figures, actions or symbolic representation. Allegory is generally treated as a figure of rhetoric; a rhetorical allegory is a demonstrative form of representation conveying meaning other than the words that are spoken.
As a literary device, an allegory in its most general sense is an extended metaphor. One of the best known examples is Plato's "The Allegory of the Cave." In this allegory, there are a group of people who have lived chained to the wall of a cave all of their lives, facing a blank wall. The people watch shadows projected on the wall by things passing in front of a fire behind them, and begin to ascribe forms to these shadows. According to the allegory, the shadows are as close as the prisoners get to viewing reality.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory
Wednesday, January 2nd 2013 at 1:53PM
Steve Williams
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@ Steve,
Wow! Thanks Steve for the insight. I think you are wonderful and I wished that you were in my English and art courses way back when I was taking them. Shucks, who needs Cliff Notes when we have Steve Notes, eh. Interesting regards the Allegories and would you consider parables a form of allegory? I love the parables that were used by Jesus to teach the people who weren't familar with the Jewish Law.
@ Cynthia
I have learned a whole bunch of stuff (history about the background/backdrop of biblical times) since attending Catholic church, because they refer to the Apocalytic books not included in the Prostestant bible (as Steve refers to or calls it; me I call it the Canonized scriptures). I was also taught not to read the lost books which makes no sense now in hind sight.
Wednesday, January 2nd 2013 at 5:17PM
Jen Fad
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Stupid Steve,
If the passage had a mystical meaning you would have stated it. You are up to your tricks again, stupid.
And, whether it does or it doesn’t is spiritually meaningless to Black Americans because we are not Jewish.
And, the answer I gave is the answer. There is no mystical anything. God told them to go to Egypt to escape Herod, dummy.
Wednesday, January 2nd 2013 at 5:21PM
Harry Watley
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To you all Black Americans,
One thing that is certain is that you all are wasting your time because no scriptures of another people can help. Jesus can not help you all and was never able to help you all because you all and Jesus are racially different and God has never send a prophet to a people that were racially different than the people because God can’t since it is the people that the prophet comes out of.
You all can’t think and rightfully so because we come from slaves and slaves are not intelligent people.
Wednesday, January 2nd 2013 at 5:30PM
Harry Watley
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Jen, oh yes the parables are allegory. That's what makes them so special.
Wednesday, January 2nd 2013 at 9:26PM
Steve Williams
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Harry, if the account of Jesus going down to Egypt is purely historical then you prove it. For a fact, you have nothing to prove it other than theses few verses. If you can prove it Harry then there is no need for me to give you the mystical meaning.
Wednesday, January 2nd 2013 at 9:34PM
Steve Williams
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@Jen... Yes I know.... Baruch, Wisdom, Susanna.... there is so many more books... I enjoy reading all the different books just for religious curiosity... BUT I think we can get something out of all of them.... Allegory/Parabble ... Christian Stories told as lessons for life... The Prodigal Son... When I think of Allegory I think of Stories told by great Philosophers!
Wednesday, January 2nd 2013 at 10:02PM
Cynthia Merrill Artis
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@ Steve,
Yes, I love the parables especially the ones about the sewer and the Good Samaritan. Those have to be my favorites along with the ten virgins and the lamps of oil. I think that as a child, I was intrigued with how Jesus taught so that everyone even the secrets of the Kingdom was revealed to even a child!
@ Cynthia,
Yes indeed. I never really understood philosophy in school so I tend to get confused reading stuff like that. However, I love the bible especially old testament. I've come to learn more now that I'm not in school than I did when I was in school. It's funny.
Thursday, January 3rd 2013 at 12:02AM
Jen Fad
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Harry, maybe you can hold off on the profanity since we're discussing scripture?
Thursday, January 3rd 2013 at 6:56AM
Steve Williams
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1. egypt was a safe place for Families
2. Families could live better in egypt during the time of Herod in the lands of Herod
3. Herod wanted to destroy children in the Land of Herod
4. israel was a child
5. Is this a Comment on egypt and israel 2013?
Thursday, January 3rd 2013 at 8:48AM
powell robert
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Exodus 15:23-26
23 And when they came to Marah, they could not drink of the waters of Marah, for they were bitter: therefore the name of it was called Marah.
24 And the people murmured against Moses, saying, What shall we drink?
25 And he cried unto the Lord; and the Lord shewed him a tree, which when he had cast into the waters, the waters were made sweet: there he made for them a statute and an ordinance, and there he proved them,
26 And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the Lord thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the Lord that healeth thee.
An allegorical interpretation from Philo (born circa 20 BC), On the Posterity of Cain and His Exile, 155-157.
When He led us forth out of Egypt, that is out of our bodily passions, as we journeyed along the track barren of pleasure, we encamped in Marah, a spot having no water fit to drink, but water wholly bitter; for the delights that come by the way of eyes and ears and that of the appetite and s*xual lusts bewitched us with their haunting music, ever ringing in our ears. And whenever we wished wholly to sever ourselves from them, they would pull against us, drawing us on and gripping us, and persistently casting their spells over us, so that, giving in to their unceasing efforts to subdue and tame us, we came to abhor labour as utterly bitter and repugnant, and we planned to retrace our course and return to Egypt, the refuge of a dissolute and licentious life; and, we might have done so had not the Saviour, anticipating us, taken pity on us and cast into our soul a sweetening tree like a syrup, producing love of labour instead of hatred of labour; for being the Creator He knew that it is impossible for us to rise superior to anything whatever, unless a vehement love of such effort be implanted in us. No pursuit that men engage in, where affection does not draw them, gains its fitting end. For complete success a sense of liking must be added, and the heart must be absorbed in the object of its desire.
Thursday, January 3rd 2013 at 9:31AM
Steve Williams
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A horrible disease (probably a cancer-like affection called Fournier's gangrene) made acute the problem of Herod's succession, and the result was factional strife in his family. Shortly before his death, Herod decided against his sons Aristobulus and Antipater, who were executed in 7 and 4 BCE, causing the emperor Augustus to joke that it was preferable to be Herod's pig (hus) than his son (huios) - a very insulting remark to any Jew (Macrobius, Saturnalia, 2.4.11).
http://www.livius.org/he-hg/herodians/hero...
Thursday, January 3rd 2013 at 11:09AM
Steve Williams
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11 Cum audisset inter pueros quos in Syria Herodes rex Iudaeorum intra bimatum iussit interfici filium quoque eius occisum, ait: Melius est Herodis porcum esse quam filium.
I'm still looking for a translation of this, but haven't found anything accurate. I may have to do it myself.
Thursday, January 3rd 2013 at 12:14PM
Steve Williams
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When it was heard that, as part of the slaughter of boys up to two years old, Herod, king of the Jews, had ordered his own son to be killed, he [Augustus] remarked, ‘It is better to be Herod’s pig than his son.
Thursday, January 3rd 2013 at 12:56PM
Steve Williams
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The translation leaves out the very significant words "in Syria". It should read:
When it was heard that, as part of the slaughter in Syria, of boys up to two years old, Herod, king of the Jews, had ordered his own son to be killed, he [Augustus] remarked, ‘It is better to be Herod’s pig than his son.
Thursday, January 3rd 2013 at 1:29PM
Steve Williams
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@ Steve,
..."the Saviour, anticipating us, taken pity on us and cast into our soul a sweetening tree like a syrup, producing love ... ; for being the Creator He knew that it is impossible for us to rise superior to anything whatever, unless a vehement love of such effort be implanted in us. ...
I love this commentary!!! It really fascinates me at how one can read something and get a wonderfully, beautiful meaning from it that may be totally different from someone else. i wonder what the name of the herb tree was that was cast forth into the stagnant waters that purified it and allowed it to be drinkable?
At any rate, it is only God who can cause our bitter experiences to be sweet as well as He is the one who can cause our past to become sweet testaments of His Goodness & Love drawing us closer to Him with His unfailing love.
Thursday, January 3rd 2013 at 2:27PM
Jen Fad
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Jesus was clearly taught and raised in Egypt, Moses went into Egypt to learn, Abraham went into Egypt for food and to learn. Also keep in mind that Moses, Aaron, Abraham, Isaac and many other prophets ALL had Egyptian wives. All of these Prophets were taught Egyptian practices. The famine was in Abraham's land and he went to EGYPT to get food. Why Egypt? I know that Minister Farrakhan said that if you want to see what the Blackman and Blackwoman was doing prior to our fall go to Egypt. Why Egypt?
Well, it just so happens that Egypt for a very long time, in our current history, not only exalted itself above the other nations, but it was the leader of all of the Arabs, Muslims and neutral nations against the West! Egypt also:
1. Liberated Yemen from the British colonization.
2. Liberated Algeria from the French colonization.
3. Egypt fought the Israelis and the British and French in 4 big wars: 1948, 1956, 1967 and 1973!
4. In 1956 war, Russia gave a clear nuclear warning to England, France and Israel to end the war with Egypt, or else it was going to declare war on them. The USA finally stepped in and forced the three stooges to stop the war on Egypt. This further proves that Egypt was very significant in the Middle East and in the world.
5. Egypt fought in Congo to liberate it from the British colonization.
6. The Egyptians are so proud of Egypt that they title it: "The mother of the world!"
7. Egypt was the country that came up with the League of Arab States where the heads of all of the Arab states meet every year. It is similar to the United Nations. And guess where the headquarters for the League of Arab States? It is in Egypt!!
So yes, Egypt does exalt itself above other nations, because it does have very high status and accomplishments among them. In fact, Egypt is one of the few countries in the entire world that is so big on exalting itself. That is why, again, its people call it "the mother of the world."
Thursday, January 3rd 2013 at 3:12PM
Siebra Muhammad
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Also it was Herod's duty to kill all children age 2 years old and under, According to Matthew, the family of Jesus flees to Egypt in order to escape the wrath of Herod in order to fulfill what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, 'Out of Egypt I have called my Son'" (Matthew 2:15). The quotation comes from the book of Hosea 11:1 and refers to the Exodus of the children of Israel from their bondage in Egypt. The author of Matthew in order to make it possible for his Jesus to go to Egypt to show that his Jesus "fills" this event with meaning. Similarly, Matthew has his Jesus born in Bethlehem because this is what was "predicted" by the prophet Micah.
A male child is born to Jewish parents, a tyrant ruler (Herod) learns of this and sets out to destroy him. The child is supernaturally protected from harm and is taken to Egypt. He then leaves Egypt to pass through the waters (of baptism) and goes into wilderness to be tested for a long time. Later he goes up on a mountain and delivers God's law to those who have been following him.
We see that Matthew had shaped the stories pertaining to Jesus to "show" that Jesus' life was a fulfillment of the stories of Moses (Exodus 1-20). Matthew's target market was the Jewish readers. Herod is made into a Pharoah like ruler, Jesus's baptism is like Moses crossing the Red Sea, the forty days of temptation are like the forty years the children of Israel wandered in the wilderness, and the sermon on the mount is like the law of Moses delievered on Mount Sinai. Jesus is therefore portrayed by Matthew as the "new" Moses, come to set his people free from their bondage and give them new law and teachings. In order to present this picture of Jesus, the author of Matthew had to colour the traditions he used. Therefore not everything within his gospel is historical.
Thursday, January 3rd 2013 at 3:22PM
Siebra Muhammad
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Jen,
The relation of the passage from Philo to the verses from Matthew is that Philo uses Egypt as a metaphor for the bodily passions. Jesus coming out of Egypt could be taken as he left behind his bodily passions. If we take the scripture as literal historic fact we have problems like the following, which I will now address to Harry.
Thursday, January 3rd 2013 at 3:24PM
Steve Williams
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This one's for you Harry. Who represents the true historical facts about the birth of Jesus? Matthew, or Luke? The following is by Robert Green Ingersoll.
According to the author of Matthew, the angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and told him to take Mary and the child into Egypt for fear of Herod. So Joseph took Mary and the child to Egypt and remained there until the death of Herod. Then Herod, finding that he was mocked by the wise men, "sent forth and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem and in all the coasts thereof from two years old and under."
After the death of Herod an angel again appeared in a dream to Joseph and told him to take mother and child and go back to Palestine. So he went back and dwelt in Nazareth.
Is this story true? Must we believe that Herod murdered the babes of Bethlehem? Is it not unbelievable that the enemies of Herod did not charge him with this horror? Is it not marvelous that Mark and Luke and John forgot to mention this most heartless of massacres?
Luke also gives an account of the birth of Christ, but a very different one. He says that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be taxed; that this was when Cyrenius was governor of Syria; that in accordance with this decree, Joseph and Mary went to Bethlehem to be taxed; that at that place Christ was born and laid in a manger. He also says that shepherds, in the neighborhood, were told of the birth by an angel, with whom was a multitude of the heavenly host; that these shepherds visited Mary and the child, and told others what they had seen and heard. He tells us that after eight days the child was named, Jesus; that forty days after his birth he was taken by Joseph and Mary to Jerusalem, and that after they had performed all things according to the law they returned to Nazareth. Luke also says that the child grew and waxed strong in spirit, and that his parents went every year to Jerusalem.
Do the accounts in Matthew and Luke agree? Can both accounts be true? Luke never heard of the star, and Matthew knew nothing of the heavenly host. Luke never heard of the wise men, nor Matthew of the shepherds. Luke knew nothing of the hatred of Herod, the murder of the babes or the flight into Egypt. According to Matthew, Joseph, warned by an angel, took Mary and the child and fled into Egypt. According to Luke they all went to Jerusalem, and from there back to Nazareth.
Both of these accounts cannot be true. Will some Christian scholar tell us which to believe? When was Christ born? Luke says that it took place when Cyrenius was governor. Here is another mistake. Cyrenius was not appointed governor until after the death of Herod, and the taxing could not have taken place until ten years after the alleged birth of Christ. According to Luke, Joseph and Mary lived in Nazareth, and for the purpose of getting them to Bethlehem, so that the child could be born in the right place, the taxing under Cyrenius was used, but the writer, being "inspired" made a mistake of about ten years as to the time of the taxing and of the birth. Matthew says nothing about the date of the birth, except that he was born when Herod was king.
It is now known that Herod had been dead ten years before the taxing under Cyrenius. So, if Luke tells the truth, Joseph, being warned by an angel, fled from the hatred of Herod ten years after Herod was dead. If Matthew and Luke are both right, Christ was taken to Egypt ten years before he was born, and Herod killed the babes ten years after he was dead. Will some Christian scholar have the goodness to harmonize these "inspired" accounts?
Thursday, January 3rd 2013 at 3:30PM
Steve Williams
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Siebra, it would make sense that Jesus was educated in Egypt, specifically Alexandria, which was the center of learning at the time.
Thursday, January 3rd 2013 at 3:41PM
Steve Williams
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Siebra, the parallels you point out between Moses and Jesus are correct. There are also parallels between Joshua and Jesus. Same name, and it means Savior. I also found this:
In Hebrew the name Joshua/Jesus is written with the letters Yod Heh Shin Vah Heh.
The letters Yod Heh Vah Heh (minus the Shin) is known as the Tetragrammaton and was extremely significant to Jewish Gnostics, as they were used to signify the unpronounceable name of God, usually rendered today with added vowels as either Jehovah or Yahweh.
As Philo explains, when the middle letter Shin, known as the Holy Letter, is added, the name means "Saviour of the Lord".
http://www.firstnewtestament.com/exodus_al...
Thursday, January 3rd 2013 at 3:52PM
Steve Williams
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According to Philo, the name means "salvation". Beyond that I can't verify the above quote about the insertion of a Hebrew letter to form the name from the tetragrammaton, since I don't have the particular volume of Philo I need. But it would be strange given that Philo wrote in Greek, not Hebrew.
Thursday, January 3rd 2013 at 4:11PM
Steve Williams
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Steve,
I am not interested in the birth of another prophet (Jesus) who had a less significant task than me and especially when Jesus was racially different than Black Americans and I.
I am Black America’s first genuine prophet and my divine task is leading Black Americans into sovereignty. My divine task is exactly the same as what Moses task was. Black Americans are as dumb as all out doors believing in and severally dumb-down by White America (the old slave master) the same as the Children of Israel were dumb-down by the Egyptians. The same hard time Moses had trying to separate his people from Egypt (the old slave masters of the Children of Israel) I am having with Black Americans now.
You are of the old way trying to keep Black Americans dumb-down and a descendent of the old slave masters making my divine task harder to accomplish. Nevertheless, Steve Black Americans will become a sovereign people in my life-time and all the good things that I said that is going to happen for Black Americans are going to happen.
So, I am only interest in the spiritual history, resurrection and sovereignty of Black Americans and not the spiritual history of the Jews because I am not a Jew.
Friday, January 4th 2013 at 12:21AM
Harry Watley
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@ Steve,
...The relation of the passage from Philo to the verses from Matthew is that Philo uses Egypt as a metaphor for the bodily passions. Jesus coming out of Egypt could be taken as he left behind his bodily passions. ...
I suppose you have a point, but I think with the scripture we should also note that its a Holy Reading for which we have the Holy Spirit that also illuminates or opens one's eyes to see beyond allegory. With that said, as I read the scripture, I thought of the Lord's many names specificly Jehovah Rapha (the Lord that healeth thee)
Psalm 103:3 KJV
(The Lord) Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;
Deuteronomy 7:15 KJV
And the Lord will take away from thee all sickness, and will put none of the evil diseases of Egypt, which thou knowest, upon thee; but will lay them upon all them that hate thee.
Moreover, The Lord the Healer 'jumped out at me" in the reading of the scriptures you quoted and it was said that when the Israelites left Egypt, not one was sickly or diseased so keeping with that theme ... :
Exodus 23:25 KJV
And ye shall serve the LORD your God, and he shall bless thy bread, and thy water; and I will take sickness away from the midst of thee.
I saw how he healed waters and made them drinkable and its not far fetched to say as they drank these waters, they were blessed the more. Having traveled to other places outside of the US, I know so well what its like to drink bad water. It's not pretty.
Friday, January 4th 2013 at 1:47AM
Jen Fad
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and eat bad food... It's not pretty.
Friday, January 4th 2013 at 1:49AM
Jen Fad
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@ Siebra,
... I know that Minister Farrakhan said that if you want to see what the Blackman and Blackwoman was doing prior to our fall go to Egypt. Why Egypt? ...
There you go AGAIN, regurgitating what your leaders have taught you!!! Don't you think for yourself? Go on, you can't deny that you repeat what you have heard from them. This isn't a good sign for a Black woman. You need to think for yourself little girl.
Friday, January 4th 2013 at 1:55AM
Jen Fad
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Who cares what the Hon. Min. Farakhan says. What do you say about it? You are so brained washed that you don't even realize it which is what brainwasher do... they are so good that the followers don't realize they are --- BRAINWASHED. It would be different if you said, "Allah said, but NO you say the Minister said. Who is he? Is he your GOD? Is he Allah the One you say you follow.
Stop the nonsense already!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Friday, January 4th 2013 at 1:57AM
Jen Fad
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Steve,
...The letters Yod Heh Vah Heh (minus the Shin) is known as the Tetragrammaton and was extremely significant to Jewish Gnostics, as they were used to signify the unpronounceable name of God, usually rendered today with added vowels as either Jehovah or Yahweh. ...
I wish so much that people today would have that kind of HOly Reverence for God... I remember learning this when I attended bible lesson in this one church I was attending. The teacher had me so afraid ... I didn't want to slip up and say the unspeakable name of God for fear of being cursed~Ha!
Friday, January 4th 2013 at 2:08AM
Jen Fad
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@ Jen,
You as well as Siebra are brainwashed. Everything that Steve is brainwashing you in is not about you, who you are and where you came from.
Friday, January 4th 2013 at 2:41AM
Harry Watley
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Jen,
Interesting. There's a Jehovah's Witnesses couple that stop by every so often. We always have a pleasant talk and the last time they left a little book explaining their beliefs. I'm still reading it because I like to learn about different beliefs. But one of the first things I learned was why they use the name they do. They say they use Jehovah because it is the personal name of God and it makes God personal to them.
There are a couple of Mormons that come to see me too. I take the time to talk to them too, and when they were here last time they asked if I wanted to say the prayer when they left. I told them they could say the prayer because I wasn't used to praying with words. When I pray I simply put the person I'm praying for in my mind. God knows what is in my mind and what is my heart's desire for that person.
And on New Years day I had the pleasure of attending a service of the Nichiren Daishonist Buddhists with Irma. It was a wonderful experience and Irma let me borrow her beads and showed me how to use them. When we parted she made a gift of them to me, though she expressed concern that they were pink. But I think pink is just beautiful.
Friday, January 4th 2013 at 3:24AM
Steve Williams
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Good timing Harry. Now what was it I just brainwashed Jen with? Lions, and Tigers, and Bears! Oh my!
Friday, January 4th 2013 at 3:32AM
Steve Williams
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Irma, I was going to ask you about the different formation on each end of the beads. I did as you said and now I see it. That brings a new level of understanding.
Friday, January 4th 2013 at 5:44PM
Steve Williams
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Harry, I don't know where I picked on a misspelled word. To my knowledge I haven't made an issue of your spelling for some time now.
Friday, January 4th 2013 at 5:47PM
Steve Williams
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Teach hard Mom!!!
Jen you know what the hell you're talking about!!! If I didn't know any better I swear you're on some kind of illegal drug, you're acting just as insane as Harry...
Friday, January 4th 2013 at 11:37PM
Siebra Muhammad
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Siebra,
The reason you are saying that I am insane is because I am showing you how stupid you are sucking-up to the Arabian people, but you are a Black American woman born out of plantation slavery.
You don’t have your own and that would make you insane. I have what is my own!
None of you all can trump me and that is because I am our first genuine prophet that will lead us into our sovereign country.
Mr. Fard and Elijah did not do this for us and you are still following those ignorant teaching of them would make you insane. It is said that doing the same thing and you all Muslims are doing the same things for the past 80 years expecting a different result is insane am I right.
The reason why you all Muslims are wrong is because Mr. Fard Muhammad was wrong. He was wrong because he was not of our race so he was a fraud. The racial issue is very, very important. Since, Mr. Fard was not of our race then he was not from God.
You must come out of the religion of Islam because the religion exclusively belongs to the Arabian people. The religion LIFE exclusively belongs to us Black Americans.
Saturday, January 5th 2013 at 12:28AM
Harry Watley
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Can't you just go and find a street corner or something Harry?
Saturday, January 5th 2013 at 12:38AM
Steve Williams
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Steve,
God granted me bigger than a street corner. God has granted Black Americans a country and we rightfully deserve it. Don’t you think so?
Saturday, January 5th 2013 at 9:48AM
Harry Watley
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"There you go AGAIN," ---- BIA STEREOTYPE ---OFF SUBJECT
--- nonEducated responses to a simple question............
Steve asked in SUBJECT TITLE: --- What do these verses signify concerning Egypt?
so an Educated Americans/African Americans should probably start their answer --
--- These verses show that EGYPT was......
but we go back to what myInspiration jenFad calls:
---- --- "BRAINWASHED----- Stop the nonsense already!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
"regurgitating what your leaders have taught you!!! Don't you think for yourself? Go on, you can't deny that you repeat what you have heard from them. This isn't a good sign ......... think for yourself ....."
i, robertPowell would say, "Think, based on History, Scholarship and Science of 2013"
steve --- what do you think of my answer---above?
does it answer YOUR SUBJECT question?
Saturday, January 5th 2013 at 12:21PM
powell robert
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It certainly did address the question Robert, thank you. And as always it got me doing some more research, on Herod the Great. Most of it comes from Josephus, whom I always take with a grain of salt. But I did find the remark that Augustus was said to have made, and I found it quite interesting, and posted it above. I also posted a question to Harry as to which is the true history in the Bible he accepts as historical fact, namely Matthew or Luke. As usual, he's at a loss for an answer. He's still trying to gain his sovereign nation, one street corner at a time. As they are virtual street corners, his sovereign nation is virtual, currently it is the size of his brain, no sign of it going any further. But as to your question, Egypt and Israel in 2013, I do think Egypt would be a better residence 2013.
Saturday, January 5th 2013 at 1:18PM
Steve Williams
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Irma, I have unlimited space and patience (smile).
Sunday, January 6th 2013 at 5:32AM
Steve Williams
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Steve,
Did you learn any thing yet about the Golden Café? That was your assignment or have you forgotten?
Sunday, January 6th 2013 at 5:39AM
Harry Watley
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Tomorrow will be a brand new day. Sleep well my sister.
Sunday, January 6th 2013 at 7:06AM
Steve Williams
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SUBJECT sweetIrma!
what do African(egypt) phrases that were translated into paganEuropean languages; mean;
i answered the question based on my understanding AND the understanding of my friends who are of AfricanEgyptian and Palestinian origin
you, on the other hand do not stay on subject AND do the typical stereotypical BLAME game to who? jenFad, me, saintJake or who? ---- yet you are the condoner of the blockers of READING/WRITING -----
You condone the filth, vileness and triflingCartoonism of the slavePast.....
I assure you that i still consider my inspiration jenFad greater than trifling-----
she has a set of thoughts about History, Scholarship and Science and maintains her thought til she realizes something contrary --- she can debate openly and is not AFRAID of READING and EDUCATION............
but the blockers of READING/WRITING find a MOM, a Matriarch in YOU.
i look back at History, Scholarship and Science and USE it to develop the future
NOW 2013 just as the 2 Billion Muslims in the world reject the olde colonialPagan bullies in Africa/Palestine, America accepts the AfricanAMerican Son of an African Muslim as their leader and AlIslaam grows....
your olde ebonic'BlackNess' is seeing a deterioration and a trifling in American thought----
NO BODY wants ebonics or ghettos
the olde slaverChristianity is succumbing to Education and the History, Scholarship and Science of Reality.......
there is NO war in the Middle East/Africa!
...there is repelling of an EVIL, paganColonial past, there is Growth.............!
dont be angry at yourSelf, CHANGE yourSelf......follow President Baraaka Hussein Obama
Sunday, January 6th 2013 at 9:22AM
powell robert
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"I" LOVE THIS EXPRESSION I HEARD RECENTLY AS RELATED TO THE STORY OF MOSES WHICH SAYS IT IS A STORY ABOUT THE UPS AND THE DOWNS AS A UNITED PEOPLE...FOR SURVIVAL OF THEIR VERY EXISTANCE...
WHICH FO RME SAYS THIS IS HE BEGINNING,MIDDLE AND THE NEVER ENDING STORY OF MOSES TO TIS DAY. (S-M-I-L-E)...
AGAIN THIS I SAW ON H2 WHEN SCIENTIST SHOWED WHERE THEY BELIEVE THE PARTING OF THE RED SEA WAS AND HOW THIS WAS MADE POSSIBLE IN TH EFIRST PLACE...
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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@STEVE, SOMETING I FORGOT TO TELL YOU...HOLD THE BEADS UP AND DOWN AND YOU WILL SEE THE FIGURE OF THE HUMAN BODY.LOL...EACH BEAD MEANS SOMETHING TAHT HERE TWONTY-FIE YEARS LATER I AM STILL LEARNING ABOUT THE MEANINGS OF.LOL (SMILE)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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@JEN...IS STEVE STILL WORTHY OF YOUR CONTINUING TO TALK, ASSOUCATE WITH AFTER WHAT HE JUST SAID ABOUT SPENDING TIME WITH WHO YOU HAVE CLASSIFIED AS THE DISTROYER OF CHRISTIANITY?!?...
STEVE JUST DID SAY SOMETHING LIKE SAYING THE 'EARTH IS NOT FLAT WHEN YOU JEN SAY IT IS FLAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (OTFLMAO)(SMILE)
OR WILL YOU JEN SAY, THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS IN TEH 'REAL WORLD' EACH AND EVERY DAY SINCE THE MIND IS MADE UP TO ...
"SEEK AND YE SHALL FIND" (S-M-I-L-E)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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(I'LLJUST SIT AND LISTEN AND LEARN)(SMILE)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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@JEN, NOW LET'S SEE YOU PUT ANY OF TOSE BIBLE LESSONS AND QUOTES YOU HAVE COPIED INTO YOUR DAILY LIFE AND NOT REJECT STEVE AS ANOTHER ANTI-CHRIST FOR SPEAKING THE TRUTH...
BUT NOT YOUR T-R-U-T-H...NOW LETS SEE YOU CONTINUE TO TAKE GOD'S NAME IN VAIN TO PROMOTE YOUR PERSONAL VENDATA AGAINST ME, SIEBRA AND MINISTER FARRAKHAN OH AND LETS NOT LEAVE OUT THE BLACK MOTHER FIGURE.."I" FEAR NOW WILL INVOLVE YOU STEVE ONLY BECAUSE YOU SEEK KNOWLEDGE OVER PREJUDICE...
@STEVE , "I" DID GET A LITTLE CARRIED AWAY WITH MY BELIEF OF, "AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU F-R-E-E...SO I NOW LEAVE IN PEACE (SMILE)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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@STEVE, LIKE YOU I TO STUDY WITH DIFFERENT RELIGIOUS GROUPS...AND IS WHY "I" CONTINUE TO SAY, "IF YOUR GOD DOES NOT REQUIRE ME TO DISCRIMINATE AGAINST MY FELLOW HUMAN BEING, THEN YOUR GOD IS MY GOD"...
AND, HERE IN LIES THE OPEN ABUSES OF MANY OF THEIR OWN RELIGIOUS PRACTICE...THEY REFUSE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS WHICH OPENS THE DOOR OF ABUSE OF NOT JUST ONE'S OWN FAITH BUT THE ABOUSE OF THE OTHER'S FAITH...
THE DEFINITION OF 'DISCMINIMATIONS' IS THE IGNORANCE OF PREJUDGING' WITHOUT ANY KNOWLEDGE TO BACK IT UP AND, WHY I OFTEN ASK PEOPLE IF THEY EVEN KNOW THE HISTORY OF THEIR OWN RELIGION AND THEY HAVE NOT ON IODA OF ITS HISTORY BEYOND THE PAT SAME OLD SAME OLD, "MINE IS CORRECT AND YOURS IS NOT CORRECT". (NUP/SMILE)
AND, IT IS MY PERSONAL BELIEF THAT JOSHUA DOES NOT GET THE FULL CREDIT HE DESERVES FOR SAVING NOT JUST THOSE BROUGHT OUT OF EGYPT BUT FOR REESTABLISHING A HOMELAND FOR HIS PEOPLE AS HE DID. THAT IS ACCRODING TO THE ST JAMES VERSION...(SMILE)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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@steve did you see the blog i just posted dedicated to Helen actually it had to do with a question she had posted to me on my bio page...she had a foot problem and she chanted and it went away...it is so hard to get people to understand thay have natural healing factors as a natural form of survival...but even moer almost impossiable to do is to get people to understand if one looks out side ot self for powers over their own lives thay are not practicing ndb...and, even harder is to try and say , no one has all of the knowledge so never stop learning from any and all persons, places and things that you can.lol!!! (smile)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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@STEVE, I AM SURE THAT JEN HAS RUN BACK UNDER THAT ROCK SHE HIDES UNDER UNTIL SHE FINDS ANOTHER BLOG TO COME OUT FROM UNDER TAHT ROCK TO TRY AND INSULT SIEBRA AS SHE IS DICTATED TO DO SO BY ROBERT'S STANDARDS AND NOT BY GOD'S WORDSOF LOVE ONE ANOTHER AS I HAVE LOVED YOU...
AND, IT THIS SENSE I DO APOLOGIZE FOR CAUSING HER TO NOT BE ABLE TO CONDEMN YOU AS OF NOW FOR THE PEACE AND UNITY YOU OFFER IN ALL OF YOUR BLOGS....(SMILE)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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STEVE, I DOUBT I HARRY CAN EVEN FIND A 'STREET' SINCE 'STREET' DENOTES A DESTINATION AND HARRY DON'T HAVE A DESTINATION. (SMILE)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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@STEVE...THE WAY I LOOK AT IT IS SINCE IN 2013 THE MIDDLE-EAST IS STILL FIGHTING THE SAME WAR AS THE VERY FIRST ONE IN THE BIBLE...
LIKE YOU, I WOULD CHOOSE EGYPT TO RESIDE IN. LOL(SMILE)...
"I" ALSO WILL RESIST ASKING ROBERT IF HIS FIRST LANGUAGE WAS CRYING AND HOW HE IS NOT ALL OF THE EXPERIENCES OF HIS PAST LIKE LEARNING FROM HISTORY TAHT WAS HERE WHEN HE ARRIVED ON PLANET EARTH...
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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POOR JEN,,,NOW BOTH ROBERT AND JAKE HAVE THROWN HER UNDER THE BUS...BUT IT IT HELPS ANY JEN,,,ROBERT THREW YOU UNDER THE BUST FIRST...BUT THEN YOU DO HAVE TO CONTINUE TO KEEP UP YOUR FORNT ABOUT YOU DONT READ MYPOST DON'T YOU??? WELL 'SISTER' JEN JUST IN CASE YOU DON'T KEEP UP WITH WHAT YOU SAY EITHER...THAT BLOGOF YOU TIGHT FRIEND WHO THREW YOU UNDER THE BUS LAST WHERE YOU WERE ASKING ABOUT WHERE WAS I WELL YOU HAVE YOUR ANSWER...SO MY ADVICE TO YOU JEN IS TO STAY UNDER YOUR ROCK WHIKE I CONTINUE TO COOL OFF...AND STEVE I SHALL NOT AKE UP ANY MORE OF YOUR SPACE AND YOUR PATIENCE WITH MY BAD BEHAVIOR. (SMILE)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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AND, STEVE THANKS TO THIS BLOG OF YOURS IT HAS BEEN A TEACHING MOMENT FOR ALL WHO STOPED BY AND SEEN IT......
I GOT TO LEARN A LOT MORE ABOUT 'SISTER ' JEN AS ALL OPENED MINES TEND TO ALLOW NEW LEARINGS IN EVEN IF WE DON'T LIKE OR AGREE WITH THEM. (SMILE)
MY ONLY REGRET IS TAHT JEN NOW HATES YOU BECAUSE YOU OFFER UNTIY AND RESPECT TO YOUR FELLOW HUMAN BEINGS BECAUSE THEY ARE HUMAN BEINGS AND THIS SHE IS TOO MUCH OF A DEVOTE CHRISTIAN TO BE ABLE TO DO AS IT RELATES TO THE ACTUAL TEACINGS IN THEBIBLE...SAY SOMETHING LIKE, 'WE EERE CREATED IN THE IMAGE OF GOD...LOVE ONE ANOTHER AS I HAVE LOVED YOU...HELL NO. (SMILE)
(S-M-I-L-E)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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...AND, AS I CONTINUE TO ENJOY JEN'S BULL **** SHE SO COPIED AND PASTED TO GIVE ALL PRAISE END TOTAL RESPECT TO STEVE THE SELF DECLARED ATHEIST...I MUST SAY STEVE I WAS IN TOTAL SHOCK HEARING OUR PRESIDENT SAY HE WAS AN ATHEIST...
THIS I HAVE NEVER HEARD HIM SAY BEFORE AND I READ HIS BOOKS AND HIS ARTICLES IN OUR WEEKLY PAPER AND HAVE NEVER EVER HEARD HIM SAY TAHT UNTIL ON NEW YEARS DAY...BUT, HERE IS WHERE ASSUPTION BEGINS WITH THE WORD ASS...BBECAUSE ALL OF THIS TIME I HAD ASSUMED SINCE HE IS JAPANSE, HE PRACTICED HIS NATION'S ONLY AT TAHT TIME RELIGION ALLOWED BY HIS NATION WHICH WAS SHINTO BUDDHISM...
LIVE AND CONTINUE TO LEARN SOMETHING NEW ALL OF THE TIME (SMILE)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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I DON'T KNOW BROTHER RABBIT...THIS IS THEWORLD OF HUMAN BEINGS WHO SOME JUST MAKE A LIFE OF LYING AND TRYING TO MAKE EVERYONE AS DOWN IN TEH DUMPS AS THEY ARE AND HELL, RIGHT NOW AS I JUST WAS DISCUSSING WITH SIEBRA, I HAVE NO IDEA WHO I AM MAD AT THEM OR AT ME FOR ALLOWING THIS MUCH OF MY LIFE TO BE CONTROLED BY THEM...
I WAS READIN GLAST NIGHT ABOUT CONFIDENCE VS AGGORANCE AND RIGHT NOW I AM TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHICH ONE AM I AT TIS MOMENT...(;OOKING IN THAT MIRROR) WHICH I MUST DO IN A SHORT WHILE AND GET SOME SLEEP. I KNOW I AM PUTTING IT ALL OF BECAUSE I FALL UNDER THE AGGORGANCE CATAGORY AT THIS MOMENT OR I WOULD NOT BE HAVING SUCH A HARD TIME GOING BEFORE THAT MIRROR....THANKS FOR LISTENING AS I NEEDED IT. (SMILE)
GOOD NIGHT AND AGAIN THANKS...YOU KNOW MIISRAEL HAS A HABIT ORF DOING WHAT YOU JUST DID...JUST APPEAR OUT OF THE BLUE WHEN I AM DOWN IN THE DUMPS AND SAY THE RIGHT THINGS...(SMILE)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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...OH AND BURN ALL OF THOSE SCHOOL BOOKS THAT TEACH CIVILIZATON BEGAN ALONG THE NILE RIVER IN EGYPT...SAYS JEN...SO GLAD NO ONE OFF PLANET STUCK ON STUPID IS LISTENING TO HER BULL ON THIS COMES FROM FARRKAHAN AND OT KNOWLEDGE KNOWN FOR OVER 5000 YEARS. (SMILE)
JEN'S FLAT EARTHIS ONLY 2000 YEARS OLD...
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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Jen puts me in the world of Animality and a long, long way from the world of Buddhahood. shame on me, but I am only human. (smile)
Thursday, April 10th 2014 at 6:47PM
ROBINSON IRMA
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